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270 Ackley question

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PappaBear View Drop Down
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    Posted: January/07/2009 at 14:22
Does it harm in any way shape or form to shoot regular 270 rounds out of the gun.  I know its intended to be fire formed, but it is tuff to chamber the round and I was concerned about if any damage is done in the process?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2009 at 14:28
what you want to do is use a reduced load and seat the bullet out far enough it touches the lands, and then shoot it, you want the bullet touching the lands so you dont put extra stress on the case when fireforming.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PappaBear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2009 at 14:36
What if you do not care about fire forming and never want to reload and just shoot 270 win?  Does it hurt the gun?  Thanks for your help Pyro 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2009 at 14:41
i wouldnt shoot a full house load no, that kind of pressure being loose fit like that, sounds like dangerous territory to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Finn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2009 at 14:49
Pappa, you are good to go. That was exactly PO Ackley's intention, to be able to shoot the standard round in the improved chamber.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Horsemany Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2009 at 14:54
Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

Pappa, you are good to go. That was exactly PO Ackley's intention, to be able to shoot the standard round in the improved chamber.
 
Agreed.  Also Ackley claimed the 270 was the cartridge that benefitted the least from his modification.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Finn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2009 at 14:59
The invention of the chronograph didn't do many of Ackley's claims much good either.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PappaBear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2009 at 15:47
I bought this gun real cheap and its a pretty cool gun.  Good wood stock with cheek piece and mauser action.  I just wanted to shoot my regular win 270 Bal tips and pretty much consider it a "270".  Will I lose velocity  if comparing a regular 270 win to shooting a reular 270 out of the Ackley barrel?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote geezer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2009 at 16:18
Yes, because the cartridge is blown out and the shoulder angle is increased to 40 degrees as part of the conversion.  This increases case volume, hence more powder for increased velocity.  Efficiency gains are claimed which vary depending on the cartridge that is improved.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2009 at 16:32
i think you guys are crazy! everything ive ever read about AI's says to load them down for fire forming, i just cant see where shooting full power loads with cases that have slop in them can be safe, especially at .270win pressures. thats like taking a 300H&H and shooting it out of a 300wby.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Horsemany Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2009 at 16:39
I know a few AI shooters who attained their brasss by shooting factory ammo.  Never a problem.  Remember the cartridge is still supported.  It just has space in front of the shoulder.  I know 2 shooters who own AI Coopers that said their fireforming loads shoot better than the formed brass "match" loads.  Big frowns.
 
Pyro
Perhaps you're thinking of the 10 grains of Unique with cream of wheat filled to the top capped with cotton for fireforming brass without using up barrel life(bullets).  That's a technique often mentioned with AI's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mustang-PaPa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2009 at 16:39
Don't know the first thing about reloading or the .270 ackley but this got me to reading and I seem many post talking about shooting the std .270 to fireform the case.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rifle looney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2009 at 16:40
guy's I shoot ackley's and it is safe to shoot standard rounds in the improved chamber..... every once in a while you will encounter a separation at the case head not to worry ? if it happens often have the gun checked with a GO....no....GO gauge.  for head space.

 PS> the accuracy should still be good and there is not enough pressure loss , or build, to be concerned....if you never plan to reload for the improved round sell the gun or trade for a standard chambering.....IMO


Edited by rifle looney - January/07/2009 at 16:46
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2009 at 16:44
in my new nosler manuals they say to take a slow load of say 4895 to  use for fireforming, and the specifically mention to purposely seat the bullets out to the lands so you eliminate stretching in the web area which eventually causes case/head separation. i myself wouldnt feel comfortable trying a full house load but i generally am not a risk taker when it envolves  fire arms either.

my grand dad has hand written instructions using unique for blowing  22 hornets out to form 22k hornets, and that made me goShocked and thats using a winchester single shot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Finn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2009 at 16:48
Originally posted by PappaBear PappaBear wrote:

I bought this gun real cheap and its a pretty cool gun.  Good wood stock with cheek piece and mauser action.  I just wanted to shoot my regular win 270 Bal tips and pretty much consider it a "270".  Will I lose velocity  if comparing a regular 270 win to shooting a reular 270 out of the Ackley barrel?


No you should not. Of course it would be difficult to compare unless the two barrels were identical.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Horsemany Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2009 at 16:51
They tamed down the manuals to a laughable level.  I have a few old ones from the 70's.  Some calibers have been toned down more than 10% max load.  It's all about CYA today.  I'm surprised they don't have instructions to stand in a shallow pool of water to eliminate static electricity while loading.  I've talk loading to some older shooters at my club and some of them were using 10 grains over max in 7mmRM compared to my Speer manual.  They've been doing so for decades too.  It's my understanding some cal's were reduced more than others for various reasons over the years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rifle looney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2009 at 16:53
what type of mauser action ....IE.98......95....96.....FN....?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Finn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2009 at 16:53
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

i wouldnt shoot a full house load no, that kind of pressure being loose fit like that, sounds like dangerous territory to me.


pyro, he stated that the fit was snug so it sounds like it was chambered correctly. If the gunsmith headspaced the Ackley chamber corectly there will be no problem. FWIW, when fireform for maximum case life, you should use reduced loads and lube the cases before firing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2009 at 16:54
i know i do push the limits with my 22-250 though, i shoot 36gr of imr 4064 in it with a 55gr bullet, max is like 34gr and i have had some primer pockets  let loose around the edges of the primers a few times, but that rifle shoots that load real nice, there isnt any room for more powder either
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2009 at 16:56
Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

i wouldnt shoot a full house load no, that kind of pressure being loose fit like that, sounds like dangerous territory to me.


pyro, he stated that the fit was snug so it sounds like it was chambered correctly. If the gunsmith headspaced the Ackley chamber corectly there will be no problem. FWIW, when fireform for maximum case life, you should use reduced loads and lube the cases before firing.

right, which is what nosler recommends, they said a light charge of faster buring powder and they said 4895 is perfect for this task.

ive been reading a little bit here on the net and according to everything ive read they say its ok to shot standards out of the ai rifles. you wont have to worry about me trying it though!
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rifle looney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2009 at 17:01
MOst factory rounds are not maximum.... I have shot at least 500 factory rnds in an AI chamber ....maybe lost 3or 4.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PappaBear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2009 at 17:08
Originally posted by rifle looney rifle looney wrote:

what type of mauser action ....IE.98......95....96.....FN....?

It is a FN, I am told.  What does that mean?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PappaBear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2009 at 17:10
When I get the Bushnell 4200 on it, I'll give a range report from sighting it in.  Wish I had a chrono.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PappaBear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2009 at 17:11
Any more info on : What base and rings guys?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rifle looney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2009 at 17:30
 FN ...is frabrique..national...don't know that the spelling is correct? it is basically a civilian.not military action...don't know that you saw my earlier post if you are not going to reload  don'.t keep the gun...trade it or sell it. you will be happier with a standard one.
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