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After much consideration - I hate Glocks

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/30/2018 at 03:12
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Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

That's just blasphemy...

Now, get your prayer rug out and repeat after me: "Thou shalt have no handgun but Glock and Gaston is his prophet" 

ILya



Nope, sorry, I'm a Smith and Wessonite.
I do believe a M&P has a cylinder though.

Is that like Mennonite? Raised any barns or shooting ranges lately? I thought Ed was the one from Pennsylvania?

Scrummy

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/30/2018 at 07:17
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lol......   no Ed was outcast! 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/30/2018 at 10:07
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Originally posted by Scrumbag Scrumbag wrote:

Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

That's just blasphemy...

Now, get your prayer rug out and repeat after me: "Thou shalt have no handgun but Glock and Gaston is his prophet" 

ILya



Nope, sorry, I'm a Smith and Wessonite.
I do believe a M&P has a cylinder though.

Is that like Mennonite? Raised any barns or shooting ranges lately? I thought Ed was the one from Pennsylvania?

Scrummy
































Don't ever accuse me of being from Pennsylvania.
A Smith & Wessonite is form a religion that would shove the muzzle of his S&W 629 in the ear of a badass thug and recite a prophecy like this "Don't move. I seldom miss from this distance".


Edited by BeltFed - August/30/2018 at 13:17
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/30/2018 at 13:10
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Oh and I forgot one other thing. I did not and do not want a gun I have to transition from double to single action. 


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/30/2018 at 15:10
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 Okay, it is official, I am out of the Glock market, and here are my initial thoughts on the M17.

1.  It comes with 2 mags, kinda chincy, but the 21-rounders from the Xfive work just fine.
2.  The trigger is not as crisp or light, but break pretty clean for the operating system.
3.  The rear sight is in no way adjustable, it is a piece of the plate that accommodates their red dot.
4.  Front sight is not bad, tritium, and has a white outer dot, which is nice as the rears don't have the white.
5.  For a company known for NOT doing external safeties, they got this one very right.  With a solid grip, it sits right where I want it to, right thumb rest and natural feel to taking it off safe.  It is also quite comfortable and not stupid big.  
6.  Again on the safety, it can remain on while the slide is run, which is very odd and very safe, I like that feature allot.  Having learned on 1911s, it is a welcome improvement on an already awesome design.
7.  It has the curved trigger, that needs to be changed to the flat, if possible.
8.  It fits fine in a holster made for a Xfive.
9.  The slide release is recessed and small, both of which I like - since I sometimes ride slide releases and have the resultant gun-in-battery-over-an-empty-chamber situation, which is fine on the 1-way range, but not the 2-way range.
10.  I hate the color, but like the gun.  If it bugs me too much, I'll rattle-can some variation onto it, that gets me lots of respect on the range and with the paintball crowd - which is why I carry guns in the first place.

All in all, it is a Glock-killing design for me: trigger is much improved, no trigger guard bite, and grip angle is right, the gun indexes well.  It does have a bit more barrel flip on hot rounds, but a full grip and a good surface to place my left thumb help immensely with that.

More to follow, like an actual range report.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/30/2018 at 15:45
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Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

Originally posted by Scrumbag Scrumbag wrote:

Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

That's just blasphemy...

Now, get your prayer rug out and repeat after me: "Thou shalt have no handgun but Glock and Gaston is his prophet" 

ILya



Nope, sorry, I'm a Smith and Wessonite.
I do believe a M&P has a cylinder though.

Is that like Mennonite? Raised any barns or shooting ranges lately? I thought Ed was the one from Pennsylvania?

Scrummy



Don't ever accuse me of being from Pennsylvania.
A Smith & Wessonite is form a religion that would shove the muzzle of his S&W 629 in the ear of a badass thug and recite a prophecy like this "Don't move. I seldom miss from this distance".


No? Too far north? Is Pennsylvania North of the Mason Dixon?

Sounds a reasonable philosophy on aim small, miss small. I miss my S&W-17 :(
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/31/2018 at 10:07
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RC, I'm jealous. I've wanted a M17 since I heard they came with a manual safety.

I checked the Sig site and the M17 comes in black and coyote. Though I'm not known for being picky about colors, I may try to hold out for the black M17.

Also, Grey Guns has a flat replacement trigger, and it may even lighten the trigger some.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/31/2018 at 10:25
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 Yea, black wasn't an option for me, it was "take this or get nothing."

With an external safety, I am happy to go a bit lighter on the trigger.

This gun will see actual use, so it will be stress tested early.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/31/2018 at 10:32
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Scrummy, Pennsylvania is north of the Mason Dixon.

Back in 1960, there was a big argument between the muzzle loading long rifle communities and clubs as to rather the muzzle loading long rifle should be called a Kentucky long rifle or a Pennsylvania long rifle. Kind of a silly argument since the stocks on a Kentucky rifle is different from a Pennsylvania rifle, and the Kentucky stock is simpler and better fitting than the Pennsylvania stock. But it gave the clubs of the Kentucky and Pennsylvania long riflemen an excuse to have match to determine rather the long rile was going to be called a Kentucky or Pennsylvania long rifle. Kind of a dumb thing for the Pennsylvania boys to do since the Kentucky long riflemen, though modest, had never been beat by any other club or group. Well the match was held, the Kentucky boys won, and the muzzle loading long rifle has since been known generically as the Kentucky Long Rifle no matter what style it is.
I happen to know and have known a few of the members of the Kentucky Long Riflemen who shot in that match. They were all exceptional men and characters.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/31/2018 at 10:34
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 Sig offers a flat bar as well.

 

https://www.sigsauer.com/store/p320-flat-trigger.html



Edited by SVT_Tactical - August/31/2018 at 12:26
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/31/2018 at 10:58
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It'll be interesting to see the differences between the fire control units (FCU) for the X5 and the M17. I can drop the X5 FCU in my P320C grip module that has a manual safety (like a M18 clone), but not the other way around without cutting a place for the safety in the X5 grip module.
There is a faint outline on the X5 grip module where that cutout would be for the manual safety.
I'm just wondering if the Grey Guns trigger kit for the standard P320/X5 could fit the M17 FCU; giving you a lighter trigger with shorter take up and reset, and either a curved or flat trigger.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/31/2018 at 11:32
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 That is exactly what I am trying to get from them.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/31/2018 at 12:20
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https://grayguns.com/

I don't think there is a conflict here, but if there is, mods...................
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/31/2018 at 12:46
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 I found their stuff, they specify the "X" series, but nothing specifically about the M guns.

When I get an answer, I'll let you know.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/31/2018 at 14:07
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!0-4
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/31/2018 at 16:06
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Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

Scrummy, Pennsylvania is north of the Mason Dixon.

Back in 1960, there was a big argument between the muzzle loading long rifle communities and clubs as to rather the muzzle loading long rifle should be called a Kentucky long rifle or a Pennsylvania long rifle. Kind of a silly argument since the stocks on a Kentucky rifle is different from a Pennsylvania rifle, and the Kentucky stock is simpler and better fitting than the Pennsylvania stock. But it gave the clubs of the Kentucky and Pennsylvania long riflemen an excuse to have match to determine rather the long rile was going to be called a Kentucky or Pennsylvania long rifle. Kind of a dumb thing for the Pennsylvania boys to do since the Kentucky long riflemen, though modest, had never been beat by any other club or group. Well the match was held, the Kentucky boys won, and the muzzle loading long rifle has since been known generically as the Kentucky Long Rifle no matter what style it is.
I happen to know and have known a few of the members of the Kentucky Long Riflemen who shot in that match. They were all exceptional men and characters.



Good to know BF, even a blasted Brit like myself has heard of the Kentucky Long Rifle ;)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/04/2018 at 10:03
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 I picked up my X-Carry Friday.  First impressions are awesome.   3 17rd mags, night sights, smooth trigger, great feel and points naturally. Love how high you can grip it, really melts to your hand and points and aims great.   Trigger is awesome.  No trouble concealing with a t-shirt and kydex IWB holster I ordered.  

Shot about 300 rounds of FMJ Winchester Saturday with no FTFs, FTE, or any hiccups.  Anther 100 rounds of speer gold dots when through it sunday with same results.  Groups great and I'm very comfortable with it.  

A bit more time with it and I'll be using it as the primary carry weapon I think.    The x ray sights are great.  Very easy to pick up in all light conditions.  

This gun is a glock killer if you compare them side by side. (sold my 34 Sunday afternoon after shooting this gun.  Think I will pick up a x5 conversion kit or just another whole gun)

Going to do some more drills soon and take photos of the results. 

If you haven't tried a Sig P320, do so.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/04/2018 at 11:10
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 Glad you like it.

There is definitely much to like about it.  If you learned on a 1911 or 92, the grip angle is great.  I point a 1911 and the Sig 320 well, and an HK P7 perfectly.  When it comes to natural indexing for me, that is the angle that works by pure muscle memory.

Metal mags and metal sights right out of the box, also very good things in my opinion.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/05/2018 at 09:27
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I informed Kenny that the M17s have been released, and I want one. He told me they are already on the way because I'm not the only idiot that wants one.

I agree with RC about the grip and natural indexing and pointing of the Sig when compared to the 1911, and 92, and I will also add the S&W 59 series with an edge to the Sig.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/05/2018 at 09:45
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 For those interested, grayguns emailed me saying the "X" triggers will work in the "M" guns.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/05/2018 at 09:57
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

 For those interested, grayguns emailed me saying the "X" triggers will work in the "M" guns.

WOO HOO!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/01/2018 at 09:01
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 Another quick update.

The M17 has been on the range a few times and has yet to experience any manner of failure.  I really, really like the gun.  

I continue to be a fan of the Xfive, it is one of - if not "the" mildest shooting 9mm handguns I have ever shot.  My follow-up shots are quick and accurate, and the mass - with a full mag - is simply fantastic, it is weight exactly where weight should be.

One note on the M17 finish, it ain't durable.  At all!  After some not-demanding holster work, the finish is gone off the front slants just aft of the muzzle.  I said before I didn't love the finish, I guess I need not worry, it doesn't look to be a long-term thing.

On the safety, I have now, a time or 2, run the slide and pulled - but got no "click" because the safety was on.  I am more ingrained to the "run the slide and squeeze" action than I knew.  The slide operating with the safety on is indeed a safe feature, but it does come as a slight change in weapon operation.

In the end, I am done with Glocks, all for sale.  I am moving in 2 weeks and will establish a complete list, everything must go.

More to follow.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/01/2018 at 11:02
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For the most part, I like the M17. However I'm not thrilled with the trigger on the pistol I fired; which is odd since the P320C I fired was quite nice, and they basically the same pistol except for grip and barrel length. The M17 is heavier and gritty compared to the P320C which is comparable to the X5 I shoot. Maybe it will get better with use and some smoothing up, but right now it bites my trigger finger as bad as a Glock. The M17 is begging for either a fire control unit swap or a Grey Guns flat faced trigger kit. Other than the trigger, the pistol points well, is easy to operate, and hits where it's aimed at 25yds..
I think more shooting is required.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/01/2018 at 11:17
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 Mine is getting a flat face trigger, I don't get bite on the current curved setup, but break the flat face better.  And yes, the M will smooth a bit with use.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/03/2018 at 09:16
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 I ended up picking up the x-five to match my x-carry.   haven't shot it yet but hope to this weekend..
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