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"Bad primers"?

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yellowdog View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yellowdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: "Bad primers"?
    Posted: April/04/2008 at 18:57
  Been reloading for a long time, but never run into this problem. My reloads for my 22-250 are showing flattend & slight crattering of the primers. No, these are not hot loads either, so it's not a high pressure issue.   Anyone here had anything like this happen to them. They are WIN. WLR's. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/04/2008 at 20:03
sometimes excessive or unwiped lube will give the impression of a hot load, as the case wall are not seizing the chamber and the bolt thrust force become abnormally high
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/04/2008 at 20:07
depth that your seating your bullet can cause a pressure spike too, as could seating the primers to deep just because the powder charge isnt hot doesnt automatically make the load "low pressure or normal pressure" lots of factors contribute to pressure, even the temp change in the air can effect pressure, some powders its recommended not to load them up and stuff them inside you vehicle during the hot summer days, and hot summer days when your at the range can effect pressure too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Longhunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/05/2008 at 14:34
The Winchester WLR primers work fine in my rifles (including a .338 Win Mag).  Dale and Pyro are giving you some good leads.  Checked your case length?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/05/2008 at 15:07
i use cci and at times wish i was using federals, the cci's have always worked, i use large rifle and also magnums, but the burn dirty, where the federals are pretty clean most of the time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yellowdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/05/2008 at 15:30
  This is a load that I have used for years, O.A.L. & C.O.A.L are right where they should be. This particular rifle I seat 20 thousands off the lands as this is where the "sweet spot" is for this one. Anyway, just for grins I loaded some rounds by the book & backed the powder down to 32.3 just to check the primers. End results were the same.    Oh yea, I'ts about time you made it back pyro, we thought you were dead.

Edited by yellowdog - April/05/2008 at 15:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/05/2008 at 15:43
could be a bad batch of primers i guess.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Longhunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/05/2008 at 17:59

Winchester had a bad bunch of 20 gauge AA shotgun shells a few years back, so I guess the same thing could happen to primers.

Have you tried your reloads in another rifle?  (Assuming a good friend would let you put these loads into his rifle!)  Also, have you tried the same loads with a different primer?  (Probably an easier thing to do.)  You've probably already checked to be sure these aren't magnum primers.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/05/2008 at 18:21
another thought is how many times have these cases been reloaded?? the primer pockets will wear out from time to time causing similar end results from time to time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yellowdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/05/2008 at 19:23
  Well the cases are a brand new batch of WIN brass, gona try a couple in my brother inlaws rifle tomorrow and gona also try a different brick of the same primers. Man I dono, this has really got me scratching my head.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RONK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/05/2008 at 22:26

 

Pull and disassemble your bolt, checking for a damaged firing pin tip and an oversized firing pin hole opening in the bolt face, which can aggravate the cratering issue.
 Also check pin protrusion beyond the bolt face in the fired position.
 I want to say .055 inches is correct, but don't quote me on that without looking it up. I don't have my references handy at the moment...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yellowdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/06/2008 at 06:25
Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

 

Pull and disassemble your bolt, checking for a damaged firing pin tip and an oversized firing pin hole opening in the bolt face, which can aggravate the cratering issue.
 Also check pin protrusion beyond the bolt face in the fired position.
 I want to say .055 inches is correct, but don't quote me on that without looking it up. I don't have my references handy at the moment...
   I'm not a gunsmith, but I did look at the bolt face & pin in the fired position, and I have to say that the firing pin hole looks like it may be ever so slightly larger when compared to my other bolts. Firing pin also looks like it could be a protruding more so than others, but to hard to tell with naked eye. I don't have a micrometer for that.  All of this does not seem to be affecting accuracy however, but what would have caused this these issues with the bolt, if infact this is my problem?  Man, go figure, should I not shoot it? This is a perfect day to shoot! Sunny, 68, slight breeze at face value.

Edited by yellowdog - April/06/2008 at 06:30
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 300S&W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/06/2008 at 08:03
New brass? Compare the weights between some old casings you had no problems with and some of the new ones. New ones could be alot thicker,reducing capacity. Just a thought.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Longhunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/06/2008 at 14:22

300S&W has a good thought.  The new brass could be the problem.  Try your loads and primers out in some older brass that you know worked.

Good luck on your range testing. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigdaddy0381 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/07/2008 at 14:31
Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

 

Pull and disassemble your bolt, checking for a damaged firing pin tip and an oversized firing pin hole opening in the bolt face, which can aggravate the cratering issue.
 Also check pin protrusion beyond the bolt face in the fired position.
 I want to say .055 inches is correct, but don't quote me on that without looking it up. I don't have my references handy at the moment...
 
Also check the primer pocket deepth of the new brass. What Ronk was saying about the bolt might only be part of it. The primer might be out set slightly and the fireing pin might be pushing the primer to soon and slamming the center into the flash hole if the primer isn't seated all the way or the primer pocket is shallow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowflake77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/07/2008 at 15:11
Nobody has said "call the manufacturer" of the primers yet.  Ask them if they have had or heard of any problems.  May save you a ton of time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VN350X10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2008 at 16:00
I see you've been shooting this load for a while, is it thru the same rifle ?
The .22-250, like my personal favorite (.220 Swift) is known to cook barrels.
Is the throat shot out of this barrel ? How many rounds thru it ?
If the throat & leade of the barrel are worn, this too can contribute to high pressures/flattened primers. The bore no longer is smooth & the increased friction can cause a pressure spike.
Did you recently change LOT of powder ? What powder are you using, some types are far more variable than others on a lot-to-lot basis.
Even the LOT of primers can make a difference, Win primers have shown variances in handgun loadings in my experience, I usually try to stay with CCI BR primers except in my .375 H&H.(Fed 215's here)
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2008 at 16:43
thats another good point to consider
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yellowdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2008 at 17:14
Originally posted by VN350X10 VN350X10 wrote:

I see you've been shooting this load for a while, is it thru the same rifle ?
The .22-250, like my personal favorite (.220 Swift) is known to cook barrels.
Is the throat shot out of this barrel ? How many rounds thru it ?
If the throat & leade of the barrel are worn, this too can contribute to high pressures/flattened primers. The bore no longer is smooth & the increased friction can cause a pressure spike.
Did you recently change LOT of powder ? What powder are you using, some types are far more variable than others on a lot-to-lot basis.
Even the LOT of primers can make a difference, Win primers have shown variances in handgun loadings in my experience, I usually try to stay with CCI BR primers except in my .375 H&H.(Fed 215's here)
 
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          Nope, It's a new rifle. Went from IMR to Varget, got same result.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VN350X10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2008 at 17:18
sounds like work-up-new-load-time to me.
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