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Carbon removal from barrel..

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8shots View Drop Down
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    Posted: April/10/2012 at 05:46
I have fired around 250 rounds through my 6mmAI.
I clean it after evrey range session, whuch amounts to about 50 rounds. I use Shooters Choice, Shooters copper removal and Boretech Carbon removal. Heavy soaks and lots of time for it to do its thing.
However, after my last session, this is after 250 rounds total through the barrel, I could feel the patch push harder through the throat area and then softer through the rest of the barrel. The patch comes out clean (white).
I then did a bit of scrubbing with the bronze brush, only in the throat area. Black gunk came out. Soaked again carbon cleaner, patch comes out clean. Scrub with wire brush, black gunk. I repeated this process about twenty times, even using a brand new bronze brush to eliminate the brush as the source of the carbon.
 
So after a couple of bronze brush scrubs the patch came out clean.
 
Whats up here??
 
My take is that all this expensive stuff is not doing its job. Remember, I soaked and soaked, sometimes even overnight.
A good old bronze brush scrubbing did the trick, with Ballistol oil. The paatch also now felt smooth throuhout the barrel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/10/2012 at 06:51
I use nylon brushes because I felt the brass brushes were mixing with the cleaning agent that I use, Barnes CR-10, and causing the "blue" left on the patches. Wasn't black though. 

Also, you may want to consider using Tubbs Throat Maintenance system to smooth out the throat. I did and noticed that the barrel was easier to clean and had less drag on the patches. 
Other than that, I'm not sure why your getting the results you've gotten, 8.    

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8shots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/10/2012 at 08:27
Thanks, I will see if I can lay my hands on some of these.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonoMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/10/2012 at 12:51
I've found carbon is harder to deal with than copper...and you don't want to leave ammonia-based solvents for long. They can etch the barrel. I soak a .45 bore mop with M-Pro 7 and leave that jammed in the chamber overnight (with the rifle upside down and with the muzzle slightly lower than the action). The mop will be covered with flakes of carbon. I used to use GM Top Engine cleaner but that stuff is highly toxic. I then run patches through on a spud with a copper solvent until they come out completely clean. I stopped brushing altogether.
Reaction time is a factor...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rustic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/10/2012 at 13:49
I use a bore snake in the field as often as possible. Carbon and copper have never been a problem for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/10/2012 at 15:12
Originally posted by rustic rustic wrote:

I use a bore snake in the field as often as possible. Carbon and copper have never been a problem for me.

Is this the only cleaning you do, is with a Bore Snake?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigdaddy0381 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/10/2012 at 15:41
cleaning is over rated." Just shoot"....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Finn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/10/2012 at 16:14
Originally posted by 8shots 8shots wrote:

I have fired around 250 rounds through my 6mmAI.
I clean it after evrey range session, whuch amounts to about 50 rounds. I use Shooters Choice, Shooters copper removal and Boretech Carbon removal. Heavy soaks and lots of time for it to do its thing.
However, after my last session, this is after 250 rounds total through the barrel, I could feel the patch push harder through the throat area and then softer through the rest of the barrel. The patch comes out clean (white).
I then did a bit of scrubbing with the bronze brush, only in the throat area. Black gunk came out. Soaked again carbon cleaner, patch comes out clean. Scrub with wire brush, black gunk. I repeated this process about twenty times, even using a brand new bronze brush to eliminate the brush as the source of the carbon.
 
So after a couple of bronze brush scrubs the patch came out clean.
 
Whats up here??
 
My take is that all this expensive stuff is not doing its job. Remember, I soaked and soaked, sometimes even overnight.
A good old bronze brush scrubbing did the trick, with Ballistol oil. The paatch also now felt smooth throuhout the barrel.
 
Stupid question time...........Are you running moly coated bullets ?
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rustic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/10/2012 at 19:31
Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:


Originally posted by rustic rustic wrote:

I use a bore snake in the field as often as possible. Carbon and copper have never been a problem for me.


Is this the only cleaning you do, is with a Bore Snake?  


For the barrel... Yes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/10/2012 at 19:52
Originally posted by rustic rustic wrote:

Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:


Originally posted by rustic rustic wrote:

I use a bore snake in the field as often as possible. Carbon and copper have never been a problem for me.


Is this the only cleaning you do, is with a Bore Snake?  


For the barrel... Yes.


What type of cleaning solutions do you use?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rustic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/10/2012 at 20:11
Outers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bitterroot Bulls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/10/2012 at 20:12
Wipe Out will remove ALL of the fouling without any scrubbing at all.
 
It is like a miracle product.
 
Use Wipe Out overnight sometime, and check the bore with a borescope afterwards.  Amazing.
-Matt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rustic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/10/2012 at 20:15
Where do you get that at??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bitterroot Bulls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/10/2012 at 21:22

I order it online, but I have also seen it sold locally.

-Matt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8shots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2012 at 00:59
No using Sierra Blitzking, no molycoats.
 
I thought all the carbon removal stuff would after several soaks clean it all out. But it does not seem to be so. A brush is still required.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2012 at 06:53
Rustic, if the only thing you use is a Bore Snake to clean your barrels, you probably have more of a copper problem than you presently know. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigdaddy0381 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2012 at 07:33
Just soak it in this for a few minutes  http://www.tetraproducts.com/product_view.asp?ID=4  and patch it out. No brush needed. if you think you need to brush it do so. This is some good stuff. i have seen it work wonders and it stinks to high heaven.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bitterroot Bulls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2012 at 08:32
Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Rustic, if the only thing you use is a Bore Snake to clean your barrels, you probably have more of a copper problem than you presently know. 


Agreed.
-Matt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2012 at 09:11
Especially on factory rifles.  All mine copper foul like crazy.  Bore snakes work great at breaking loose some carbon between cleanings, but beyond that they do not do much.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeltFed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2012 at 10:41
+1 on the Wipe Out.
There is another foaming bore cleaner that removes carbon and copper, but I can't remember if it's Outters, or Birchwood Casey's.
Wipe Out is still my first choice though. Haven't had to use a bore brush since I started using it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2012 at 10:48
You have the "Dreaded Cone of Carbon", a common event which occurs more as the more "over bore" the caliber and powder charge combination. Copper fouling really isn't a problem, but carbon build up will ruin accuracy.
the best carbon cleaning solvents are unsaturated aromatic ethers. light wt. synthetic motor oil. the ether bridge has an unshared pair of electrons, which combines with the carbon residue, and the aromatic rings are a natural carbon solvent. Saturate barrel with a wet swab let stand for a couple of hours, spray out the residue with brake fluid , follow with one pass of JB's bore cleaner , then Kroil

If you had been using moly this wouldn't have happened.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shooter07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2012 at 11:09
BoreTech Eliminator
 
Best solvent i've ever used to date.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thundey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2012 at 17:59
Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

You have the "Dreaded Cone of Carbon", a common event which occurs more as the more "over bore" the caliber and powder charge combination. Copper fouling really isn't a problem, but carbon build up will ruin accuracy.
the best carbon cleaning solvents are unsaturated aromatic ethers. light wt. synthetic motor oil. the ether bridge has an unshared pair of electrons, which combines with the carbon residue, and the aromatic rings are a natural carbon solvent. Saturate barrel with a wet swab let stand for a couple of hours, spray out the residue with brake fluid , follow with one pass of JB's bore cleaner , then Kroil

If you had been using moly this wouldn't have happened.


Best advice so far.  Stuff a cork in the barrel and then fill with synthetic motor oil, or even cooking oil will work.  Let stand overnight and then drain and run a patch through it.  Also if you need to wash your hands after some  mechanic work start your wash with some form of cooking oil.  Then use dawn dish detergent or other soap.  You will have the cleanest hands on the blockCool
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Native Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2012 at 20:49
Wipe-out is the way to go. Been using it for years. Pull a bore snake through after each trip to the range or hunt. Use Break Free on the snake. Wipe out when I feel like it. A good break in was part of the history.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rustic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2012 at 23:12
I will have to try wipe out with a bore snake.
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