OpticsTalk by SWFA, Inc. Homepage SWFA     SampleList.com
Forum Home Forum Home > Scopes > Rifle Scopes
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Dear Mr. Koshkin...Please tell Vortex
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Visit the SWFA.com site to check out our current specials.

Dear Mr. Koshkin...Please tell Vortex

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
R H Clark View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: July/26/2011
Location: NW Alabama
Status: Offline
Points: 200
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote R H Clark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Dear Mr. Koshkin...Please tell Vortex
    Posted: November/26/2016 at 12:32

That is they would make their new Razor HD LH  with G4 BDC reticle with Tritium dots, I would sell all my other scopes and buy them for all my rifles.


If the G4 had even one Tritium dot it would be great. If it had 3 dots ,the top one being the largest, or a different color ,it would be absolutely perfect for a hunting scope. I would want Tritium rather than standard illumination to keep the scopes the same weight.


Back to Top
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 12824
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/27/2016 at 11:01
I'll suggest it, but I do not know how straightforward that is. Tritium is controlled, so that part of it has to be added stateside. Perhaps, it would be dumped and quicker to make a design with a conventional illuminated dot or with a photoluminescent coating.

ILya
Back to Top
anweis View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master


Joined: January/29/2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1040
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anweis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/27/2016 at 13:23
Interesting reticle, the G4 DDC. Looking at it on paper and reading it's sub tensions, i would be afraid the reticle is too fine and too thin. For hunting in brush, that is.


Back to Top
R H Clark View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: July/26/2011
Location: NW Alabama
Status: Offline
Points: 200
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote R H Clark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/28/2016 at 10:15

Anweis

The reticle is a lot bolder in person than it looks to be in print. I've sat with it several evenings until dark. The heavy portion is bold enough to bracket a deer size target well enough out a bit past 100 yards a little after legal shooting light.

Tritium would really come in handy on the dot for longer range precision shots at last legal light.


Mr. Koshkin, a photoluminescent coating would work fine for me such as the old Bushnell 3200 Firefly had. It could always be charged by a Maglight  when light started fading, which is the only time it would ever be needed anyway. Frankly, I don't understand why such coatings never became more popular. They must not be nearly tactical enough for the armchair commandoes.

Back to Top
supertool73 View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar
Superstool

Joined: January/03/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 11473
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/28/2016 at 11:11
I trick I learned in a precision rifle night shooting class was to buy some of those glow sticks that people put through there tongues for tongue rings.  Then get some kind of puddy, I use that stick puddy that you can hang stuff on the wall with. 

Then light up the stick and use the puddy to put the glod stick in the objective right aginst the glass.  U use the puddy to adjust the brightness by cover part of the glow stick up.  I used this with the SS 10xHD for the night shoot and worked great.  It back lit the reticle to where I could see it just fine. 
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."
Back to Top
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 12824
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/28/2016 at 13:25
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

I trick I learned in a precision rifle night shooting class was to buy some of those glow sticks that people put through there tongues for tongue rings.  Then get some kind of puddy, I use that stick puddy that you can hang stuff on the wall with. 

Then light up the stick and use the puddy to put the glod stick in the objective right aginst the glass.  U use the puddy to adjust the brightness by cover part of the glow stick up.  I used this with the SS 10xHD for the night shoot and worked great.  It back lit the reticle to where I could see it just fine. 

Can you post a picture of this setup?  I have not heard about this one, so I am a little curious.

Thanks
ILya
Back to Top
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 12824
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/28/2016 at 13:27
Originally posted by R H Clark R H Clark wrote:

Anweis

The reticle is a lot bolder in person than it looks to be in print. I've sat with it several evenings until dark. The heavy portion is bold enough to bracket a deer size target well enough out a bit past 100 yards a little after legal shooting light.

Tritium would really come in handy on the dot for longer range precision shots at last legal light.


Mr. Koshkin, a photoluminescent coating would work fine for me such as the old Bushnell 3200 Firefly had. It could always be charged by a Maglight  when light started fading, which is the only time it would ever be needed anyway. Frankly, I don't understand why such coatings never became more popular. They must not be nearly tactical enough for the armchair commandoes.


I'll harass Vortex about it and see.

The reticle is pretty visible as is, IMO, but a little more low light visibility is always a good thing.

ILya
Back to Top
jonoMT View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: November/13/2008
Location: Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 4852
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonoMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/28/2016 at 13:38
I imagine those little glow sticks used for fishing might work well too.
Reaction time is a factor...
Back to Top
supertool73 View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar
Superstool

Joined: January/03/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 11473
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/28/2016 at 13:41
I don't really have a way to post a picture of it.  I don't have any of the glow sticks any more. 

But there are just the small sticks like this.  https://www.amazon.com/Tongue-Glowstick-Barbell-Holder-glowsticks/dp/B004A6FJQU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1480361622&sr=8-3&keywords=tongue+glow+sticks

And something like this for the puddy.  https://www.amazon.com/Duck-Removable-Mounting-Poster-1436912/dp/B000BQMFEC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1480361830&sr=8-2&keywords=wall+stick+puddy

Then you just warp the glow stick in the puddy and stick in in the objective.  It doesn't take much light to see the reticle.  With to much it doesn't work well. 

Does Scott Hoerner still work as FS?  He is the one who showed me that. 

Edited by supertool73 - November/28/2016 at 13:46
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."
Back to Top
R H Clark View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: July/26/2011
Location: NW Alabama
Status: Offline
Points: 200
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote R H Clark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/28/2016 at 15:30
I'll harass Vortex about it and see.

The reticle is pretty visible as is, IMO, but a little more low light visibility is always a good thing.

ILya



I really like the reticle. It's a big improvement over most scopes that use the traditional German #4 as is. I can bracket the kill zone of a deer sized animal a little over 100 yards but if I could see the dots and BDC lines at last light it would make it capable at even longer range.

I am using this scope in place of a Kahles Helia CL 2-7X36 which has been my favorite light weight tweener up until now. I'm a big fan of this power range in a light weight hunting rifle. It's very high praise for me to say I like this Razor HD LH 1.5-8X32 better than my beloved Kahles CL 2-7X36 with #4.

I appreciate your involvement in getting this reticle to hunters.
Randy 
Back to Top
Snack_Attack View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: February/10/2016
Location: Mississippi
Status: Offline
Points: 73
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snack_Attack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/04/2016 at 22:24
Whats the deal with tritium being controlled? Is that one of those "cant export military technology" things since it's used in ACOGs?
We've become a nation of wolves ruled by sheep, owned by swine, over fed, and put to sleep.

-Otep
Back to Top
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 12824
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/04/2016 at 22:44
Tritium is a radioactive material.  It has always been controlled bu the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. The amount used in riflescopes and weapon sights is very small, but I do not know the details of the regulations to be honest.  I suspect the setting up a facility abroad that processes tritium might be a bit involved.

ILya
Back to Top
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: October/31/2009
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 1763
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Robertson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2016 at 11:23
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

I trick I learned in a precision rifle night shooting class was to buy some of those glow sticks that people put through there tongues for tongue rings.  Then get some kind of puddy, I use that stick puddy that you can hang stuff on the wall with. 

Then light up the stick and use the puddy to put the glod stick in the objective right aginst the glass.  U use the puddy to adjust the brightness by cover part of the glow stick up.  I used this with the SS 10xHD for the night shoot and worked great.  It back lit the reticle to where I could see it just fine. 

I could smart off and have some real live fun with this post, but I won't. I could ask you how you really know about glow- in- the- dark tongue rings and such, but I won't.



Like hell I won't.
"Garg'n uair dhuisgear"
Back to Top
Peddler View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar

Joined: July/04/2012
Location: Oswego,NY
Status: Offline
Points: 11502
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2016 at 12:49
💥💥💥😂👀👀👀
When you are dead, you don't know you are dead.It is difficult only for others.

It is the same when you are stupid.
Back to Top
Litehiker View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: August/03/2016
Location: Mojave Desert
Status: Offline
Points: 41
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Litehiker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/04/2019 at 01:23
Hi Ilya,
Just read your article "Objectives" in Issue 2 or G&A's Precision Rifle Shooter.Seems most of the stuff I know about rifle scopes has come from you or Tom Beckstrand.

You talked about "the Middle Ground" of objectives and I have two hunting scopes that fit that description.
1. SWFA SS 3 - 15 x 42 (FFP)
2. Bushnell Elite LRTS 4.5 - 18 x 44 (FFP)

->The SWFA has serves well for a few years, even W/O locking turrets (clear packing tape works) and the glass is very good for the money.

->The Bushnell LRTS is new and on my 6.5 PRC Browning X-Bolt Pro, a light mountain rifle

SO... I wanted an illuminated G3 reticle and mil/mil under 30 oz. and the LRTS fit that description. 
Yeah, long at 14" but hey, long means fewer objective lenses, not lower quality so I got it.

Just after that purchase, of course, Nightforce came out with their excellent NX8 in 2.5 - 20 x 50 at 12" which is much more the length I wanted for hunting as well as higher quality and a more Xmas tree reticle like my competition scope's H59 that I'm very used to using. Same weight as the LRTS I have.
Aaarrrggghhh! I pulled the trigger too soon.

I hate paying nearly $3,000. for an FFP MARCH 3 - 24 x 42 but I can stretch for the Nightforce NX8.
"... would-a, could-a should-a"

Eric B.



There are no comfortable packs - some are merely less uncomfortable than others.
Back to Top
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 12824
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/04/2019 at 08:27
Originally posted by Litehiker Litehiker wrote:

Hi Ilya,
Just read your article "Objectives" in Issue 2 or G&A's Precision Rifle Shooter.Seems most of the stuff I know about rifle scopes has come from you or Tom Beckstrand.

You talked about "the Middle Ground" of objectives and I have two hunting scopes that fit that description.
1. SWFA SS 3 - 15 x 42 (FFP)
2. Bushnell Elite LRTS 4.5 - 18 x 44 (FFP)

->The SWFA has serves well for a few years, even W/O locking turrets (clear packing tape works) and the glass is very good for the money.

->The Bushnell LRTS is new and on my 6.5 PRC Browning X-Bolt Pro, a light mountain rifle

SO... I wanted an illuminated G3 reticle and mil/mil under 30 oz. and the LRTS fit that description. 
Yeah, long at 14" but hey, long means fewer objective lenses, not lower quality so I got it.

Just after that purchase, of course, Nightforce came out with their excellent NX8 in 2.5 - 20 x 50 at 12" which is much more the length I wanted for hunting as well as higher quality and a more Xmas tree reticle like my competition scope's H59 that I'm very used to using. Same weight as the LRTS I have.
Aaarrrggghhh! I pulled the trigger too soon.

I hate paying nearly $3,000. for an FFP MARCH 3 - 24 x 42 but I can stretch for the Nightforce NX8.
"... would-a, could-a should-a"

Eric B.




I wish there was more development with high end makers of moderate sized objective scopes.  I think they focus too much on 50mm and larger objectives.  I know of a couple of companies who will be doing more in this size range during the next year, but it is too early to announce anyything.

If this is the size range you are looking for, I would take a closer look at Leupold Mark 5 HD 3.6-18x44 and Nightforce ATACR 4-16x42.  Both are very good and ATACR is available wtih Mil-XT reticle.

NX8 2.5-20x50 is an interesting scope.  There are some strengths and witnesses with it, so I would not necessarily buy it sight unseen.  If you can get your hands on it somewhere, do so.  It works well for some people and not so well for others.

LRTS is a very competent design, but it is beginning to show its age a little.  Still, if 4.5x on the low end works well for you, it is a really good option.

Given what you are looking for, the upcoming Burris XTR3 3.3-18x50 is very promising.

For a little less money, you may want to consider Meopta Optika6 3-18x50FFP.  Unfortunately, their 3.5-15x44 is SFP only for now, but 3-18x50 is available with both FFP and SFP reticle.  I designed their tree reticle, so I am looking forward to seeing it in the flesh, so to speak.

I just started testing the larger 5-30x56 Optika6 and I am really impressed with how much it offers for the money.

ILya
Back to Top
Litehiker View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: August/03/2016
Location: Mojave Desert
Status: Offline
Points: 41
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Litehiker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/04/2019 at 23:18
Ilya, I looked at the NF ATACR 4 - 16 x 42 and like it. 

 My questions are:

1.What are the weaknesses you have identified with the NF NX8 2.5  - 20 x 50?
2.What is dated on the Bushnell LRTS 45. - 18 x 44? The longer length means fewer objective lens needed to bend light but no lowering in quality. Yeah, no ED glass but otherwise very good.

In my search for a relatively light variable riflescope with 42 to 44 mm objectives and FFP is that I found many that were otherwise very good were SFP only or, like Leupold, had very rudimentary reticles with no milling hash marls and only a red center dot, IF that.

I use a LRF binocular that gives me a ballpark mil hold (Bushnell ARC 1Mile 10 x 42) and need milling (or MOA) hash mark, numbered reticles to utilize my rangefinder. 
BTW, to me BDC reticles for long range hunting are as useless as tits on a boar.

Yeah, I like the MARCH 3 - 24 x 42 scope and available illuminated reticles but MON DIEU, the price! (and short guarantee).

Eric B.

There are no comfortable packs - some are merely less uncomfortable than others.
Back to Top
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 12824
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/05/2019 at 08:44
Originally posted by Litehiker Litehiker wrote:

Ilya, I looked at the NF ATACR 4 - 16 x 42 and like it. 

 My questions are:

1.What are the weaknesses you have identified with the NF NX8 2.5  - 20 x 50?
2.What is dated on the Bushnell LRTS 45. - 18 x 44? The longer length means fewer objective lens needed to bend light but no lowering in quality. Yeah, no ED glass but otherwise very good.

In my search for a relatively light variable riflescope with 42 to 44 mm objectives and FFP is that I found many that were otherwise very good were SFP only or, like Leupold, had very rudimentary reticles with no milling hash marls and only a red center dot, IF that.

I use a LRF binocular that gives me a ballpark mil hold (Bushnell ARC 1Mile 10 x 42) and need milling (or MOA) hash mark, numbered reticles to utilize my rangefinder. 
BTW, to me BDC reticles for long range hunting are as useless as tits on a boar.

Yeah, I like the MARCH 3 - 24 x 42 scope and available illuminated reticles but MON DIEU, the price! (and short guarantee).

Eric B.


NX8 has some issues with depth of field, edge distortion, and finicky parallax.

LRTS design is dated in that it has been around for a long time.  It does not make it bad, but the compromise there is comparatively low magnification ratio (3x) and long overall length.  It is a very good scope overall.

There appears to be a certain sweetspot with erector ratios and that seems to be in the 5x to 6x range with current technology. 

There are many excellent older designs with lower erector ratios (like one of my favourtites: SWFA 3-9x) and a new crop of high erector ratio designs of 8x and more.  

With lower erector ratios, you sacrifice some flexibility, but with higher erector ratios you start seeing compromises due to optomechanical complexity.

ILya
Back to Top
Litehiker View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: August/03/2016
Location: Mojave Desert
Status: Offline
Points: 41
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Litehiker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/07/2019 at 15:10
Thanks Ilya.
I'll stay sith my new Bushnell LRTS for a few seasons and likely go to the N/F ATACR 2.5 - 20 x 50 unless something better comes up.

BTW, several MARCH 3- 24 X 42 owners have mentioned "finicky parallax knob" problems and some said that went away when they changed to the 3 - 24 x 50 version.

Eric B.


There are no comfortable packs - some are merely less uncomfortable than others.
Back to Top
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 12824
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/03/2019 at 18:32
Originally posted by Litehiker Litehiker wrote:

Thanks Ilya.
I'll stay sith my new Bushnell LRTS for a few seasons and likely go to the N/F ATACR 2.5 - 20 x 50 unless something better comes up.

BTW, several MARCH 3- 24 X 42 owners have mentioned "finicky parallax knob" problems and some said that went away when they changed to the 3 - 24 x 50 version.

Eric B.



I finally got my hands onto the NX8 2.5-20x50 for a more thorough test and was able to see it side-by-side with March 3-24x52, March 2.5-25x42 and a few others. 

In some ways, NX8 was better than I expected, but in some fairly critical ways, it was worse.  March 3-24x52 walked all over it, although it is more expensive.  

There is weird distortion in the NX8 that is just distracting and the eyepiece is weirdly finicky to get behind.  Center of the image is good, but the edges are bad enough to distract my attention.  The eyepice is oddly restrictive for lateral movement.  In other words, it did not agree with me.  Nightforce fan boys gush about this scope, but I see people quietly dumping these on the used market quite a bit.

If you want a Nightforce, get the 4-16x42 ATACR.  It may not look as impressive on paper, but it walks all over the NX8 in use.

If you want a large mag range, consider March 3-24x52 and a few others.  March is still the lightest though if that matters.

ILya


Edited by koshkin - October/05/2019 at 14:19
Back to Top
Bigdaddy0381 View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Georgia peach

Joined: February/27/2007
Location: Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 13447
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigdaddy0381 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/03/2019 at 20:58
I do love me some March scope
P&Z Firearms , Pro gun cleanings and gun repair and wood refinishing.

Ecclesiastes 10:2
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.367 seconds.