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DIAL-IN VS. HOLD OVER...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2009 at 12:53
supertool73 View Drop Down
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Plus that is only going to work with one 22-250 load at a specific velocity and a specific elevation etc etc.  For shooting small varmints you need to be on, not just close to on.  There is no replacement for learning your load and learning how to dial in your scope properly to given distances.  All these holdover scopes are never going to be exact, which is typically okay for big game but don't work as good for small targets.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2009 at 12:57
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Nothing with their name on it comes cheap. This would work for you, and be closer to your price range, however still outside it. With a load like a 50gr remington accutip-v on 14x the scopes marks would be almost dead on out to 500 with a 200 yard zero. Too bad it's $800.
 
This is what I intend to put on my 22-250 some day. Although I have to save for a long time yet
 
Another option for dialing would be this, and it's in the price range.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2009 at 18:42
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AH MAN...I'M GOING CROSS-EYED HERE
DID I MENTION I WOULD LIKE TO ALSO HAVE THE RETICLE IN THE FIRST FOCAL PLANE OF THE SCOPE
 
IT SEEMS THE MORE I RESEARCH THE THE SLIMMER MY PICKING ARE GETTING...
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2009 at 19:07
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With FFP the options are a bit more limited. How much money are you willing to spend?

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2009 at 20:24
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That really reduces your choices.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2009 at 21:16
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If you are going to dial up an FFP scope does nothing extra for you. The Nikon you first mentioned  is a fine scope... I know I own 2.
Yes the Schmidt will run you over 2 grand and while it's a great scope, it's not four times better than the Nikon and there are a lot of that Nikon model on SWFA's sample list for $500.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/09/2009 at 00:06
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

With FFP the options are a bit more limited. How much money are you willing to spend?

ILya
 
 
500ISH
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/09/2009 at 00:08
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Originally posted by tinytim tinytim wrote:

If you are going to dial up an FFP scope does nothing extra for you. The Nikon you first mentioned  is a fine scope... I know I own 2.
 
DO YOU FIND YOUR SEALF KEEPING THE MAGNIFICATION ON JUST ONE OR 2 SETTINGS 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/09/2009 at 03:00
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OK.  In the under $500 range, you can probably forget about FFP. Well, there is the Falcon 4-14x44 scope, but I do not have any experience with it (Falcon only has a five year warranty which I find unacceptable). Also, I would opine that for varmint shooting FFP is not the best choice anyway.

In the under $500 range, I would go for Vortex Viper 6.5-20x44 with BDC reticle:

http://www.swfa.com/pc-12763-2123-new-vortex-65-20x44-viper-30mm-rifle-scope.aspx


Vortex BDC reticle worked pretty well for 55gr 22-250 loads out of my 22-250 Savage.  Alternatively, you can use the knobs to dial-in the correction (this scope has around 70MOA of adjustment range, so you have plenty for shooting pretty far out with a number of calibers).

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/09/2009 at 09:10
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I THINK IF I CANNOT OBTAIN SOMETHING WITH THE FFP, I WILL PROBABLY GO WITH THE
NIKON. (MONARCH 6-24X50 ) 500 OFF OF THE SAMPLELIST
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/09/2009 at 13:35
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I would probably go with Vortex Viper over the Nikon Monarch in this case, but both are good scopes. 
If you go with the Monarch, keep in mind that it only has 30MOA of internal elevation adjustment, so Burris Zee Signature rings would be a good idea.  If you want to use the knobs you pretty much have to set it up to be zeroed in a very specific W/E setting.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/09/2009 at 15:05
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

I would probably go with Vortex Viper over the Nikon Monarch in this case, but both are good scopes. 
If you go with the Monarch, keep in mind that it only has 30MOA of internal elevation adjustment, so Burris Zee Signature rings would be a good idea.  If you want to use the knobs you pretty much have to set it up to be zeroed in a very specific W/E setting.

ILya
 
THIS SCOPE...?
.
 
ALSO ABOUT THE MOUNTS.. I WAS JUST GOING TO GO WITH STANDARD LEOS WITH THE
ADJUSTABLE RAIL.
BUT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS THAT INORDER TO GET ENOUGH DIAL-ABILITY I WOULD NEED TO GET A CERTAIN STYLE OF RINGS (HIGHER OR LOWER) IN ORDER TO OBTAIN A CERTAIN ZERO POINT
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/09/2009 at 15:12
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To reach 500 yards you are going to need 30 to 35 MOA elevation adjustment with a 22-250.  The Vortex only has 65 MOA total elevation adjustment in it.  Cut that in half because it will be around center when you get the scope zeroed.  SO you will have 32.5 up and 32.5 down.  The 32.5 up is not going to be enough to get you to 500 yards.  So if you add a base or rings that have 20 MOA built into them the suddenly when your scope is zeroed at 100 you now have 12.5 down and 52.5 up which is plenty to get you to 500 yards.

Hope that makes sense.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/09/2009 at 15:51
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

To reach 500 yards you are going to need 30 to 35 MOA elevation adjustment with a 22-250.  The Vortex only has 65 MOA total elevation adjustment in it.  Cut that in half because it will be around center when you get the scope zeroed.  SO you will have 32.5 up and 32.5 down.  The 32.5 up is not going to be enough to get you to 500 yards.  So if you add a base or rings that have 20 MOA built into them the suddenly when your scope is zeroed at 100 you now have 12.5 down and 52.5 up which is plenty to get you to 500 yards.

Hope that makes sense.
 
KINDA. BUT NOT SO MUCH
 
SO WHEN LOOKING INTO PURCHASING RINGS ARE THEY CATAGORIZED AS SUCH?
IS THIS A COMMON ADVERTISED SPEC WHEN I GO TO PURCHASE THEM?
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/09/2009 at 16:05
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Originally posted by MOOSEKNUCKLE MOOSEKNUCKLE wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

I would probably go with Vortex Viper over the Nikon Monarch in this case, but both are good scopes. 
If you go with the Monarch, keep in mind that it only has 30MOA of internal elevation adjustment, so Burris Zee Signature rings would be a good idea.  If you want to use the knobs you pretty much have to set it up to be zeroed in a very specific W/E setting.

ILya
 
THIS SCOPE...?
.
 
ALSO ABOUT THE MOUNTS.. I WAS JUST GOING TO GO WITH STANDARD LEOS WITH THE
ADJUSTABLE RAIL.
BUT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS THAT INORDER TO GET ENOUGH DIAL-ABILITY I WOULD NEED TO GET A CERTAIN STYLE OF RINGS (HIGHER OR LOWER) IN ORDER TO OBTAIN A CERTAIN ZERO POINT
 


There are two Vorex Viper scopes with the same power range, but different objective lens sizes: 6.5-20x44 and 6.5-20x50.  Both are quite good, but offer different reticles, so pick the on you like.

As for the mounts, I am not a big fan of "standard" Leupold/Redfield mounts, but if you want to use those, get Burris Signature rings that have plastic inserts.  By using different inserts you can  maximize the amount of available adjustment.

http://www.swfa.com/c-457-burris-signature-30mm-rings.aspx


ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/09/2009 at 16:06
supertool73 View Drop Down
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The only rings I know of are burris Zee rings, I believe.  I have never used them though.  You can buy one piece bases that have 20 MOA or 30 MOA and so on built into them.  Here is one.  http://www.swfa.com/pc-11561-1773-warne-tactical-1-piece-base.aspx

Badger, IOR, EGW, Seekins, TPS, Farrel, Nightforce all make them.  They cost a little more than the cheapo Leupold one you were going to use, but they are much more robust and designed to accomplish what you are wanting to do.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/09/2009 at 20:26
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by MOOSEKNUCKLE MOOSEKNUCKLE wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

I would probably go with Vortex Viper over the Nikon Monarch in this case, but both are good scopes. 
If you go with the Monarch, keep in mind that it only has 30MOA of internal elevation adjustment, so Burris Zee Signature rings would be a good idea.  If you want to use the knobs you pretty much have to set it up to be zeroed in a very specific W/E setting.

ILya
 
THIS SCOPE...?
.
 
ALSO ABOUT THE MOUNTS.. I WAS JUST GOING TO GO WITH STANDARD LEOS WITH THE
ADJUSTABLE RAIL.
BUT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS THAT INORDER TO GET ENOUGH DIAL-ABILITY I WOULD NEED TO GET A CERTAIN STYLE OF RINGS (HIGHER OR LOWER) IN ORDER TO OBTAIN A CERTAIN ZERO POINT
 


There are two Vorex Viper scopes with the same power range, but different objective lens sizes: 6.5-20x44 and 6.5-20x50.  Both are quite good, but offer different reticles, so pick the on you like.

As for the mounts, I am not a big fan of "standard" Leupold/Redfield mounts, but if you want to use those, get Burris Signature rings that have plastic inserts.  By using different inserts you can  maximize the amount of available adjustment.

http://www.swfa.com/c-457-burris-signature-30mm-rings.aspx


ILya
 
 
SO YOU WOULD RECOMMEND THE VORTEX OVER THE NIKON
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/09/2009 at 21:42
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Originally posted by MOOSEKNUCKLE MOOSEKNUCKLE wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by MOOSEKNUCKLE MOOSEKNUCKLE wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

I would probably go with Vortex Viper over the Nikon Monarch in this case, but both are good scopes. 
If you go with the Monarch, keep in mind that it only has 30MOA of internal elevation adjustment, so Burris Zee Signature rings would be a good idea.  If you want to use the knobs you pretty much have to set it up to be zeroed in a very specific W/E setting.

ILya
 
THIS SCOPE...?
.
 
ALSO ABOUT THE MOUNTS.. I WAS JUST GOING TO GO WITH STANDARD LEOS WITH THE
ADJUSTABLE RAIL.
BUT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS THAT INORDER TO GET ENOUGH DIAL-ABILITY I WOULD NEED TO GET A CERTAIN STYLE OF RINGS (HIGHER OR LOWER) IN ORDER TO OBTAIN A CERTAIN ZERO POINT
 


There are two Vorex Viper scopes with the same power range, but different objective lens sizes: 6.5-20x44 and 6.5-20x50.  Both are quite good, but offer different reticles, so pick the on you like.

As for the mounts, I am not a big fan of "standard" Leupold/Redfield mounts, but if you want to use those, get Burris Signature rings that have plastic inserts.  By using different inserts you can  maximize the amount of available adjustment.

http://www.swfa.com/c-457-burris-signature-30mm-rings.aspx


ILya
 
 
SO YOU WOULD RECOMMEND THE VORTEX OVER THE NIKON


Yes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2009 at 02:04
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There you go. From the man himself. I would never argue what koshkin has to say. The man looks through more optics in a year than I will ever own. I would have never thought of Vortex, but I haven't gotten to spend time with one yet. Good luck to you.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2009 at 02:13
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Optically, both the Monarch and the Viper are quite good.  However, I prefer the way this Vortex is set up for longer range shooting: there is a lot more adjustment range available and the clicks on the Vortex are 1/4MOA vs 1/8MOA for the Monarch.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2009 at 15:04
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Optically, both the Monarch and the Viper are quite good.  However, I prefer the way this Vortex is set up for longer range shooting: there is a lot more adjustment range available and the clicks on the Vortex are 1/4MOA vs 1/8MOA for the Monarch.

ILya
 
Hey, Koshkin.
 
Did you shoot a box, or anything else to check the tracking of the Vortex?  Just wondering how well they would do vs. a Sightron, 4200 or VXIII in that aspect. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2009 at 15:27
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I checked the tracking on a couple of Vipers I had and it was spot on.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2009 at 15:33
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

I checked the tracking on a couple of Vipers I had and it was spot on.

ILya
 
Great.  I thought I had my next purchase narrowed down to two......now I'll be pulling my hair out again!  I already have a couple of Sightrons.  So, maybe I'll give the Vortex a shot.  Thanks for your expertise.  We are lucky to have ya on here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2009 at 21:13
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WOULD THE ADDITON OF A TAPERED ASE SOLVE THE ADJUSTMENT ISSUE?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/11/2009 at 21:08
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I dont mean to complicate things here but the Super Snipper has worked very well for me. I have always thought I needed a variable but I have been satisfied with the fixed power. The variables that I have stay on the highest power setting 99% of the time. I have the SS16X on a savage 22-250 and it is good to 800yds. This is as far as I have got to shoot on a range. I have settups useing both clicks and mil dots. As Koshkin stated earlier mildots are good to aprox 500 then the clicks really shine. I will also say I appreciate the fine fellows here that offer their help. I will defer to their good judgement on this matter. I also have sought their help in choosing the best optics for my situation.
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