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trigger29 View Drop Down
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    Posted: October/11/2008 at 21:23
I was out shooting the other day, and hit everything I shot at from 2-700 yards. It was calm with winds about 1-3 mph. I went out today with a new box of the same ammo, and everything hit low and right. Conditions about identical except 50 degrees instead of 70. Do you think the new box of ammo shot that different, or could the temperature change have caused such a big change? This seems like a big difference for this little temp. difference. I was about 8" right and a foot low at 400 yards. I should have backed up to 100 and checked my zero, but ran out of time. What do you think happened?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2008 at 21:39
different lot of ammo, thats why i reload. factory ammo has to many factors that you cant control
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2008 at 21:42
What time of day was it?  In the morning and evening a person will typically shoot different that during the middle of the day because of the shadows and the way the sun goes across the target.

Temp can make a difference as well as does air pressure.  Typically 1 single change will not make a huge difference.  But when you start combining a lot of things big changes can start happening.  
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trigger29 View Drop Down
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trigger29 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2008 at 21:47
First day I shot from about 1:30 pm to 5:30. Today I went from 4-6:30.  It was sunny the first time, and overcast today. It rained this morning if that matters.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2008 at 21:50
Humidity definitely will make a difference.  It sounds like there were a lot of changes in your days.  Combine that with the different lot of ammo I can see changes like that happening at longer distances.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2008 at 21:56
i just messed with the atmospheric condition factors on my rem shoot program i screwed with the temp the humidity and the pressure and i went from 80degree and very little humidity to 50 degrees with a ton of humidity at 500yards and it only changed the poi by .3 inches i dont know how accurate that program is but thats what it came up with. i then cranked the heat way up with the high humidity and it dropped it a total of 6" at 500yds

Edited by pyro6999 - October/11/2008 at 21:59
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trigger29 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trigger29 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2008 at 21:59
I see. Well I was consistantly right 8" at 400, or I assume 2" at 100. I just thought this seemed like a huge change even with a different lot number and different conditions. I really need to buckle down and save for my reloading setup. If I ever get my hours back, and start making money again, this will be first priority.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2008 at 22:00
gun shows my man, buy the stuff used and go from there.
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
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trigger29 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trigger29 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2008 at 22:01
 I am just disheartened. I went from not being able to miss one day to not being able to hit my a$$ with both hands a few days later.

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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trigger29 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2008 at 22:04
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

gun shows my man, buy the stuff used and go from there.
 
I got powder, a press, some dies, and 300 bullets that my dad had from his dabbling in reloading, but I need a scale, and tumbler, and all that other stuff yet. After deer season is over I can stop shooting so much and save some. If I would have invested all my ammo money in equipment, I would have had a nice setup already.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2008 at 22:09
Air density will have the biggest effect of all those things.  The moisture in the air from the rain earlier and the cooler temps will make the air thicker which will slow the bullet faster. 

But it is hard to say what the exacts causes were.  I am sure it was a combo of many things.  That is why snipers log everything for every shot.  Time of day, direction of the sun, humidity, air pressure, temp, lot of ammo, elevation, ect, ect, ect.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2008 at 22:15
Here is a good article on atmospheric conditions.  http://demigodllc.com/articles/windmeters-for-tactical-shooting/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/12/2008 at 08:33

its a common mistake that humidity causes denser air, it this were true clouds wouldn't float-- breifly water has an atomic wt. of 18, but both nitrogen and oxygen are diatomic and much heavier.

also because the faster a bullet goes the ballistic coefficient increases, so the differential rate of change doesn't drop off faster as indicated in Smiths article

wind meters are a waste of time.

a bright target will cause a shooter to "aim high" as the perspective changes. low light causes the opposite, combine this with a change in the bc of the two bullets you were using would be a good guess. even though the packages are marked with the same bullet it really doesn't mean they are the "same" in factory ammo



Edited by Dale Clifford - October/12/2008 at 11:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/12/2008 at 09:34
Originally posted by trigger29 trigger29 wrote:

Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

gun shows my man, buy the stuff used and go from there.
 
I got powder, a press, some dies, and 300 bullets that my dad had from his dabbling in reloading, but I need a scale, and tumbler, and all that other stuff yet. After deer season is over I can stop shooting so much and save some. If I would have invested all my ammo money in equipment, I would have had a nice setup already.
ive got a spare balance beam scale i would be glad to send you if that helps any
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sgt. D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/12/2008 at 09:48
Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

its a common mistake that humidity causes denser air, it this were true clouds wouldn't float-- breifly water has an atomic wt. of 14, but both nitrogen and oxygen are diatomic and much heavier.

also because the faster a bullet goes the ballistic coefficient increases, so the differential rate of change doesn't drop off faster as indicated in Smiths article

wind meters are a waste of time.

a bright target will cause a shooter to "aim high" as the perspective changes. low light causes the opposite, combine this with a change in the bc of the two bullets you were using would be a good guess. even though the packages are marked with the same bullet it really doesn't mean they are the "same" in factory ammo

 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trigger29 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/12/2008 at 12:46
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

Originally posted by trigger29 trigger29 wrote:

Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

gun shows my man, buy the stuff used and go from there.
 
I got powder, a press, some dies, and 300 bullets that my dad had from his dabbling in reloading, but I need a scale, and tumbler, and all that other stuff yet. After deer season is over I can stop shooting so much and save some. If I would have invested all my ammo money in equipment, I would have had a nice setup already.
ive got a spare balance beam scale i would be glad to send you if that helps any
 
That's appreciated Hunter, but  I can't ask somebody else to finance my addiction. I'll get there eventually. Probably after deer season, before it starts getting warm enough to shoot again.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/12/2008 at 13:44
Originally posted by trigger29 trigger29 wrote:

Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

Originally posted by trigger29 trigger29 wrote:

Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

gun shows my man, buy the stuff used and go from there.
 
I got powder, a press, some dies, and 300 bullets that my dad had from his dabbling in reloading, but I need a scale, and tumbler, and all that other stuff yet. After deer season is over I can stop shooting so much and save some. If I would have invested all my ammo money in equipment, I would have had a nice setup already.
ive got a spare balance beam scale i would be glad to send you if that helps any
 
That's appreciated Hunter, but  I can't ask somebody else to finance my addiction. I'll get there eventually. Probably after deer season, before it starts getting warm enough to shoot again.
im always willing to contribute to bad habits!
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steelbenz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2008 at 05:00
  [/QUOTE]
im always willing to contribute to bad habits!
[/QUOTE]


Hunter,
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Jason, you got it right, it an ADDICTION not just a habit!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tip69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2008 at 08:56
Jason, where do you get most of your ammo?
take em!
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trigger29 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trigger29 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2008 at 16:33
Originally posted by Tip69 Tip69 wrote:

Jason, where do you get most of your ammo?
 
Been buying all of it at my local sporting goods store. Of all people here, maybe you have heard of Dakota Archery and Outdoor Sports?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8shots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/14/2008 at 06:13
You do not need a tumbler to start with. Good old Brasso and a rag with elbow grease gets them shiny too. Or you can shoot them dirty, just wash them in some thinners or soapy water etc to clear out dirt etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graysteel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/18/2008 at 19:23
I am a little surprised that you got such a consistent and large shift to the right. I would be very suspect of the scope mounts or changes in how the stock is contacting action or barrel.
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trigger29 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trigger29 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/22/2008 at 06:42
Originally posted by Graysteel Graysteel wrote:

I am a little surprised that you got such a consistent and large shift to the right. I would be very suspect of the scope mounts or changes in how the stock is contacting action or barrel.
 
I considered this, but the one box shoots right where it is supposed to every time, and the next to the right every time.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tip69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/28/2008 at 10:11
Originally posted by trigger29 trigger29 wrote:

Originally posted by Tip69 Tip69 wrote:

Jason, where do you get most of your ammo?
 
Been buying all of it at my local sporting goods store. Of all people here, maybe you have heard of Dakota Archery and Outdoor Sports?
 
Have been there many times!  They have some good prices on there .223 ammo - Ultramax 55 gr Soft Point for only 17.99 per box of 50.  My 700 BDL shoots this stuff great!
 
Dude that runs that place isn't the friendliest though!  Loco    Do you remember when that building was a motorcycle shop?  That's going back a few years.  Have you ever participated in their factory gun test?  I have wanted to do that for several years but can't seem to get there for one.
take em!
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