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Kahles K624i vs... everything else

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Chief Sackscratch

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/17/2012 at 10:51
Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

It was a joke, son...
I know, just didn't want someone passing through trying to learns the new Kahles not knowing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2012 at 09:22
I spent the whole weekend shooting, had no time/opportunity to take pictures - which sucks.

I will be back out with it in a few weeks.

Having now put a few more rounds down range, there are a few more observations.

1.  I like the view at about 16X best.  At 24X, there is a little thought to getting a good sight picture, but it sure is pretty when you get there.

2.  The yardage markings on the parallax turret are pretty far off beyond about 300 yards, it isn't a problem, you just need to forget about what the turret says and pay more attention to a parallax-free image.

3.  The turrets are awesome, the zero stop works great!

4.  I do not like the illumination scheme in very low light.  It illuminates the center dot, but a whole lot more (and nothing on the "christmas tree."

I will be keeping this scope for a long, long time. And the bar is set exceedingly high for the Steiner.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonoMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2012 at 09:31
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

2.  The yardage markings on the parallax turret are pretty far off beyond about 300 yards, it isn't a problem, you just need to forget about what the turret says and pay more attention to a parallax-free image.
I wonder if that's something common to scopes with parallax adjustment...as in is it something about the relationship between the shooter's vision and the optics/sight picture. I always found it amusing that people would complain about a lack of markings on the Premier knob. It's a bit time consuming but better to rely on just dialing it in until sharp and the reticle isn't moving when I move my head around a bit.
Reaction time is a factor...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2012 at 10:02
Exactly!  I have Premiers with nothing and with the expanding scale, no numbers on either.  My preference is some manner of marking, so I know where I am on the rotation.

The problem with numbers is that you tend to use them as a crutch: "get close on the dial, then get it perfect on the scope", and no set of numbers will be perfect.  I now prefer the graduated scale setup (Premier LT) as I know if I am near top or bottom, but don't bother getting "close" off the scope.

As said, it is a very minor gripe.  And would be far less bothersome were there no detents to tell me I have arrived at a marker that is not accurate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonoMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2012 at 10:08
I do like the addition to the Premier of the expanding scale, like you said, just so you know where you are on the rotation (and, for me anyway, remembering which way to turn it).
 
Overall, these new Kahles models are exciting additions to their product line.
Reaction time is a factor...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stickbow46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2012 at 11:24
Thanks for the quick reviewRC.How did it hold up to the Henny?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2012 at 11:29
To the Henny, it was as sharp and bright (at the same relative magnification.)  The real test was the Kahles vs the Zeiss FL T.  In that regard, the glass was very, very close - too close to call; but eye relief was better on the Kahles.  The water shedding coating (if there is one) on the Kahles was not as good, but the brightness and clarity were very similar.  I think the color on the Zeiss might be a bit better, but that is far from my priority.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 338LAPUASLAP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2012 at 15:59
"What is your conclusion on FL vs K in low light???"
 
I am thinking that the Zeiss FL scope is the best receipe of glass and coatings...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonoMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2012 at 17:44
Originally posted by 338LAPUASLAP 338LAPUASLAP wrote:

I am thinking that the Zeiss FL scope is the best receipe of glass and coatings...
Now if only they would merge with NF to become ZeissForce.
Reaction time is a factor...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2012 at 18:52
Originally posted by jonoMT jonoMT wrote:

Originally posted by 338LAPUASLAP 338LAPUASLAP wrote:

I am thinking that the Zeiss FL scope is the best receipe of glass and coatings...
Now if only they would merge with NF to become ZeissForce.


Now wouldn't that be an out standing scope.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2012 at 19:49
Originally posted by 338LAPUASLAP 338LAPUASLAP wrote:

"What is your conclusion on FL vs K in low light???"
 
I am thinking that the Zeiss FL scope is the best receipe of glass and coatings...
 
Hensoldt is the same as FL with additional "hardening" ... according to Zeiss.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stickbow46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2012 at 21:26
True KB but the coating has a little more work done in the blue spectrum,also the turrets seem to be a level above the FL.Also the internal parts are made a little different as the Henny is a 34mm tube & to mil spec tolerence.
 
FL scopes are more for long distance bench shooting that florite glass is super sweet you can pick the color of a knats uss out at a 1 K yrds.
 
What I'm interested in is wheather or not the glass is better than the S&B [Zenith FD#9] at the dark hours,my Henny isn't but they are very close.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stickbow46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2012 at 21:30
Forgot to mention.338,according to Zeiss the new HT series is supposedly the cats me-ow in low light besting even the FL's!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rustic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2012 at 22:35
Originally posted by jonoMT jonoMT wrote:


Originally posted by 338LAPUASLAP 338LAPUASLAP wrote:


I am thinking that the Zeiss FL scope is the best receipe of glass and coatings...

Now if only they would merge with NF to become ZeissForce.


I looked at a NF in retail store tonight while they look well built good lord they are massive and extremely heafty heafty heafty.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2012 at 23:28
Originally posted by stickbow46 stickbow46 wrote:

True KB but the coating has a little more work done in the blue spectrum,also the turrets seem to be a level above the FL.Also the internal parts are made a little different as the Henny is a 34mm tube & to mil spec tolerence.
 
FL scopes are more for long distance bench shooting that florite glass is super sweet you can pick the color of a knats uss out at a 1 K yrds.
 
What I'm interested in is wheather or not the glass is better than the S&B [Zenith FD#9] at the dark hours,my Henny isn't but they are very close.
 
Your comments are hard to follow, but if you are talking about the Hensoldt, you are correct... according to both Zeiss and HUDISCO... and me, since my wife bought me a Hensoldt.  However, most users will not see the difference between the Hensoldt and the Zeiss FL.  I've posted quite a bit on my findings of the differences between the Hensoldt and the FL.  The mechanics on the Hensoldt are better than anything else I've used... except perhaps a USOptics with EREK and that is mostly due to design philosophies, expected end user requirements inputs.  Zeiss/Hensoldt has a bit different idea about the world than USOptics. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stickbow46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/19/2012 at 04:47
Yes ,I was talking about the Henny.It was your comparrison last year between the 2 Zeiss scopes that led me to trading up to the Henny from the FL....Thanks
 
Wish I could get my wife on board to buy me an Alpha scope....You lucky guy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/19/2012 at 04:52
Originally posted by stickbow46 stickbow46 wrote:

Yes ,I was talking about the Henny.It was your comparrison last year between the 2 Zeiss scopes that led me to trading up to the Henny from the FL....Thanks
 
Wish I could get my wife on board to buy me an Alpha scope....You lucky guy.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/19/2012 at 08:44
Good feedback on the Kahles K!
I wasn't aware that it Kahles had introduced their own hydrophobic lens coating.

A couple general observations:

- Personally, I've never seen a graduated SF knob on any scope that had perfectly calibrated distance markings... for MY eye, and I'm not sure it's even possible anyway, given normal manufacturing variations and variations in eyesight. I do agree that I like to have markings of some kind just as a reference, however.

- Though it would seem easy, I've seen damn few scopes with perfectly designed illumination systems (for the intended purpose) for every light condition. The closest I've seen to perfect that I've personally used have been the S&B Zenith Flash Dot system, the Swaro Z6i system, and the Zeiss Varipoint system. Still, each of those have their own minor shortcomings. Trijicon's battery-less system is pretty good too, but I like more control over intensity in low light than it provides (which is essentially none after a certain point in the evening), and I have to fiddle with the fiber optic shroud to tone down intensity more than I'd prefer in daylight. I like each of those for slightly different reasons, but they are all excellent... for how I use lit reticles.


Edited by RifleDude - December/19/2012 at 08:49
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/19/2012 at 09:28
Ted,

I agree with the parallax turret statements above, my concern is the detents that stress the scale at the yardage marks.  As said initially, I'd be fine with a scale, but would prefer they not include a detent that effectively tells me "you just passed something of importance" when I really didn't.

On the illumination, I agree; however, this illumination is worse than many (in terms of what is illuminated and what is not.) Illumination intensity is great, controls work as they should, but the illuminated reticle portions are odd.  It isn't a deal breaker, not by a longshot (pun intended), but I would have done it differently.

Lastly, I don't know that Kahles has water-shedding coatings; but if they do, they don't shed water well.

I love the scope, it is the only >20X I have owned for more than a month and wanted to keep shooting.  The "gripes" are relatively minor, and for my purposes, are not really detractors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/19/2012 at 11:05
Man, how I wish Kahles still offered 1" tube hunting scopes! I'm just glad they still have a presence here in the States after all the shakeup with distribution & CS, because IMHO their scopes hold their own with anything else available (that I've experienced) optically and mechanically.

It sounds like they really did their homework on this scope! I don't recall if you mentioned already, but does it have the position switch that automatically turns off illumination when the scope is oriented upward or on its side?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ccoker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/19/2012 at 11:31
Ted,
You mean like this?


KXI 3.5-10x50
Illuminated #4 D Dot
#4 reticle with 1 mil harsh marks that have small dots that light up

Compact and light..
NICE
$1500 retail

The K624i we have in is the Mil 4 reticle
The center crosshair section lights up first, then as you increase the level the whole reticle lights up.  I tried to get pics but just can't ever get ill reticle pictures to work.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/19/2012 at 11:58
Wow, Charles...the US Kahles rep I met at the SHOT show you and I both attended a couple years ago told me Kahles had no future plans to produce any more 1" tube scopes because they didn't feel the average US buyer would pay what they had to sell them for to make a profit, considering the retail prices of their competitors' 1" scopes. That has held true... evidently until recently. So, I haven't been looking for new 1" tube scopes from Kahles and was not aware of the KXI models.

That's a really intriguing scope, but unfortunately, I'm not a fan of 1" tube scopes with 50mm objectives. If I want an objective that large, I'm going 30mm anyway. Given current trends, I also don't understand why they'd introduce a 3:1 erector scope instead of a 4:1 or 5:1 zoom range, especially at that price point.  I appears that's essentially the same scope as the previous KX 3.5-10X50, except with the addition of illumination and some new reticles.

If they're returning to the 1" tube scene, I wish they'd continue building more compact stuff like their excellent 2-7X36 CL they discontinued very shortly after introduction.  But, evidently I must be among the minority of buyers who prefer compact "tweener" models since so many scope mfgs keep discontinuing their "tweener" scopes.


Edited by RifleDude - December/19/2012 at 12:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonoMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/19/2012 at 15:37
Originally posted by rustic rustic wrote:

Originally posted by jonoMT jonoMT wrote:


Originally posted by 338LAPUASLAP 338LAPUASLAP wrote:


I am thinking that the Zeiss FL scope is the best receipe of glass and coatings...

Now if only they would merge with NF to become ZeissForce.


I looked at a NF in retail store tonight while they look well built good lord they are massive and extremely heafty heafty heafty.
The only two I've ever considered are the F1 (30 oz., which is comparable to similar scopes in its mag range) and the 2.5-10X32 (really decent 19 oz. and which I used to own). I may again someday but not until they bump the glass up.
Reaction time is a factor...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rustic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/19/2012 at 16:33
^Aside from not wanting to pack around anymore bulk and weight than I have too. I tend to shoot better with lighter weight rifles than heavier weight ones. Everyone has their preference in these areas.
Plus my very average and getting older eyes can't tell the difference between the "glass" on $500 and up scopes no matter the brand.



Edited by rustic - December/19/2012 at 19:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ccoker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/21/2012 at 09:06
to me, the difference in glass becomes apparant in 2 conditions:
long range
low light

most modern scopes look great in the daylight at a few hundred yards

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