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Practical Tactical Shooting

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cheaptrick View Drop Down
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    Posted: January/03/2007 at 03:30

http://demigod.org/articles/practical-long-range-rifle-shoot ing-optics/

 

I think I posted this here sometime last year.

Zak already gave me the OK to post this here.

 

Good stuff.

 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trinidad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2007 at 11:17
Great post Cheap.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2007 at 13:26

Zak Smith really has his gig together.

He has the ability to explain high tech stuff and put it in laymans terms.

Glad you like it!

(Wish I would have wrote it.....)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trinidad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2007 at 14:39
I hope this post of yours gets read by alot of people here at the OT.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote longbow308 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2007 at 20:04
CT

lots of good stuff there
longbow308
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dusky-jeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/18/2007 at 13:42

Awesome article with a lot of helpful info for someone new to this stuff but one thing confused me. I have been lurking and reading lots of stuff here and most everyone seems to like the super sniper. I am about to order one for my 10FP-LE2A but noticed this under the conclusions section of this article.

 

"6. The angular units of the reticle features must match the angular units of the knobs' "click" values. There is no reason to have two different "systems" in use on the same scope. If the clicks are in MOA, the reticle features should be in MOA. If the reticle is in mils (e.g. Horus or Mil-dot), the knob clicks should be in mil units."

 

 Did I read it wrong? Is the super sniper not mil dot but with 1/4" adjustment knobs? Is that a drawback to the SS?

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cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/18/2007 at 13:58

Welcome to The OT!!

I'm glad you liked the article.

 

I might have misunderstood your question, but yes, the SS's are 1/4" MOA adjustments.

1/4" clicks are pretty much the standard in tactical scopes.

 

  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dusky-jeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/18/2007 at 14:38
Thanks cheaptrick!...glad to be here.  Help me out. Maybe I'm misreading the article but it seems to imply that a scope should be mil adjustments if it's mil dot and moa adjustments if it's reticles are in moa. Is that what it says in the little bit of the article that I copied and quoted in my post? I'm most likely not understanding it correctly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/18/2007 at 15:09

The Super Sniper has .25 mil dots spaced 1 mil apart.

And yes, the 1/4" MOA are not in mills. You have to do the math.

The SS has a Army Mil Dot installed, I believe.

 

Does this diminish the outstanding value of the mighty SS???

Negative!!

 

In the tactical game, there's no better scope value than the Super Sniper IMO.

Nobody gets "beat" buying a Super Sniper....

 

I think Zak's talking about higher priced scopes here with "custom" reticles being optimum.

 

For example, the US Optics SN-3 can be ordered with a MOA reticle with MOA clicks.

The S&B PMII has a reticle in cm, and the clicks are as well. 

Allowing the shooter to range a target and adjust W/E without "doing the math".

 

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here gang.....



Edited by cheaptrick
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dusky-jeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/18/2007 at 15:28
That makes sense. Thanks for the come back. I think i'll stick with the ss and i'm sure it will be better then i am! Again, very good article.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/18/2007 at 15:33

Originally posted by dusky-jeff dusky-jeff wrote:

That makes sense. Thanks for the come back. I think i'll stick with the ss and i'm sure it will be better then i am! Again, very good article.

 

Let us know when it get it mounted up.

 

Here's some links for you.

http://supersniper.com/

http://mildot.com/

 

Regards,

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zak Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2007 at 11:34
Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

 

I think Zak's talking about higher priced scopes here with "custom" reticles being optimum.

 

For example, the US Optics SN-3 can be ordered with a MOA reticle with MOA clicks.

The S&B PMII has a reticle in cm, and the clicks are as well. 

Allowing the shooter to range a target and adjust W/E without "doing the math".



I don't think there's any valid argument that it's better to mix angular unit systems on a single scope, but you CAN get matching systems on factory scopes, and scopes less than the USO/S&B range.  Since there are not a lot of scopes that offer mil-based clicks, this generally means going with a MOA-based reticle and regular MOA clicks.  A common combination is the Nightforce (0.25MOA clicks) with the NPR2 or now NPR1 reticle.  But yeah, these are way more expensive than the SS.

There is a market opportunity for a "budget" scope which has matching systems..

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2007 at 14:49

Thanks for stopping by Zak!

 

I didn't mean to misrepresent your great article.

I forgot about the NF scopes, and I guess a Leupold with a Premier Reticle would apply as well?

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2007 at 15:44
Good post, CT. You target/tactical guys are sooooo bad. I'm glad you aren't hunting me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zak Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2007 at 15:46
I don't know if Premier has any MOA-based reticles?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote orangebang72 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2007 at 03:45
Thanks for the link cheaptrick there is a lot of information for us new guys.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2007 at 09:33

I mostly agree with the article, but not entirely.

 

Hell, Unertls wouldn't qualify with his criteria; and I can't say I'd take much from anyone over an original USMC-issue Unertl.

 

For purposes of this thread and discussion, it is a great article with good info.

 

And, as stated before, the SS is the best deal going.

 

The guy didn't like Nightforce, I really like Nightforce; we'll agree to disagree.

 

Thanx for the article, CT; good stuff.



Edited by Rancid Coolaid
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zak Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2007 at 11:44
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Hell, Unertls wouldn't qualify with his criteria; and I can't say I'd take much from anyone over an original USMC-issue Unertl.

And what did the USMC replace it with?  The 3-12x50 PMII.

We have better technology now and we understand better what makes a good scope for practical use.

This is not to say a $3000 scope is needed to make hits, since a good rifleman will figure out how to make hits with about anything, however, by any objective measure the new scopes have more capabilities and are easier to use.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2007 at 21:10

Yea, I know, "newer is always better: change is always improvement."

 

I liked the Unertls, I like my Nightforce.

 

one day I will invest in an Accuracy International 300 win mag and will top it with a PMII; but till then, I'll happily shoot my poor man's rig: PSS with Nightforce.

 

I did like the article, it was worth the read.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zak Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/27/2007 at 01:16
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

 

one day I will invest in an Accuracy International 300 win mag and will top it with a PMII; but till then, I'll happily shoot my poor man's rig: PSS with Nightforce.


Definitely worthwhile..
 
  [ link to LARGER image ">


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/27/2007 at 09:13
why the can?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zak Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/27/2007 at 10:45
A better question is: Why isn't everyone running a can?



Edited by Zak Smith
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/27/2007 at 12:04

requires whole new data table

 

only really fun if round is subsonic

 

prey never hears the report anyway

 

at about $1,000 to get it running: ROI is limited

 

for less money, I can buy a Gemtech for my H&K USP .45: cheaper to buy, cheaper to shoot, very little sound.

 

I've fired a silenced rifle or 2 and enjoyed them, but it ain't my thing.  Loud is OK, because usually accompanies hard-hitting whoop-ass.  And I have data tables for my long guns out to decent range, and I do hate making data tables.

 

But it looks like a nice setup.  Mine will look similar, only without the can, and with this sticker on the buttstock.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zak Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/27/2007 at 12:11
Answers:

1. no
2. no
3. this isn't about hunting
4. hearing damage is forever
5. more cans are gooder
6. silenced 338 Lapua = 44 magnum hitting power @ 1200 yards = whoop-ass at a distance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonbravado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/27/2007 at 12:37

how many dB's does the can take out of that monster sound?

 

J

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