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.280 Ackley Improved (factory cartridge)

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Category: Firearms, Bows, and Ammunition
Forum Name: Reloading & Ballistics
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Topic: .280 Ackley Improved (factory cartridge)
Posted By: Chris Farris
Subject: .280 Ackley Improved (factory cartridge)
Date Posted: August/18/2008 at 15:15

There is an article by Lane Simpson in the October 2008 Shooting Times about Nosler making the brass and loaded ammo.  Nosler is also offering 500 of their rifles chambered in .280 AI.

Pretty cool deal.




Replies:
Posted By: lucytuma
Date Posted: August/18/2008 at 19:01
I agree and would love to have one.

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"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." - Thomas Jefferson


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: August/18/2008 at 19:04
yeah pretty neat is right, 7mm mag performance without a belt and still no loss of a round in the mag either

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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: sakomato
Date Posted: August/18/2008 at 20:30
3000 fps + with a 160 gr Accubond.  The Nosler brass makes it easy even though fireforming the regular 280 rem brass can be quite accurate as long as you don't go through the process of forming a false shoulder
 
This was with a slow lot of powder so anyone looking, don't duplicate without working up in your rifle
 
62 grains of RL25 has been a more consistant performer for me lately though.  If you get a tight neck then you will have to deal with do-nuts to maintain accuracy
 
Love my 280AI!


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Guns only have 2 enemies, rust and politicians


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: August/18/2008 at 20:33
61.4 shoots pretty nice man thats impressive

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Roy Finn
Date Posted: August/18/2008 at 21:01
If I were limited to only one rifle for deer hunting, I'd reach for my 280 Ackley with no regrets. Mild recoil, accurate, easy on barrels, flat shooting, great brass life and more than enough power for Deer and Elk.


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: August/18/2008 at 21:02
Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

If I were limited to only one rifle for deer hunting, I'd reach for my 280 Ackley with no regrets. Mild recoil, accurate, easy on barrels, flat shooting, great brass life and more than enough power for Deer and Elk.
dont forget the 7mm's have a great bullet selection for reloading too.


-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Roy Finn
Date Posted: August/18/2008 at 21:03
That was a given........


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: August/18/2008 at 21:05
Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

That was a given........
just trying pump up the .280 great caliber with or with the ack imp.


-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Roy Finn
Date Posted: August/18/2008 at 21:18
The Ackley gets about 500 fps more I think............


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: August/18/2008 at 21:23
no, more like 200-300 i think

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Roy Finn
Date Posted: August/18/2008 at 21:25
I was kiddin...


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: August/18/2008 at 21:26
oh

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Roy Finn
Date Posted: August/18/2008 at 21:29
Realisticly, it's probably around 75-100 fps.


Posted By: sakomato
Date Posted: August/18/2008 at 22:48
I liked the 500 fps difference!  Excellent  Can I quote you on that Roy?
 
IMO (admittedly severely biased) the 280AI is a caliber that can go on any hunt you have in the lower 48.  The 270 is a little small for Elk and the 30-06 is too slow, at least with heavy enough bullets to have decent sectional density.  The 7 mag is OK but sometimes it is too fast and the bullets get squirrelly on impact.  The 300 win mag is great but kicks harder than it has to.
 
I like bullets with good sectional density to travel right around 3000 fps.  I'll settle for 2900 fps and will throttle back at 3100 fps.  That way they might not get crazy at 50 yds and will still have enough to do good at 500 yds.
 
IOW, if I'm going Speed Goat hunting I will take my 280AI and my 6.5 rem mag.  For Elk it will be my 280AI and my 300 win mag (or maybe the new 338RUM when it gets here).  Rain, I'll take the stainless 280AI or shine take the other one.  Means I have to leave my Steyr 30-06 in the safe.  Sad  I'm getting too many guns.


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Guns only have 2 enemies, rust and politicians


Posted By: rkingston
Date Posted: August/19/2008 at 10:57
Anyone who ownes a .280AI is probably a reloader or has a really good friend that is. I don't see that changing as the price point for a box of .280AI factory ammo from Nosler is around $75 dollars.
RK


Posted By: Roy Finn
Date Posted: August/19/2008 at 13:39
My Ackley is strictly a hand-loaded proposition. I would never pay 75 bucks for a box of ammo.


Posted By: Roy Finn
Date Posted: August/20/2008 at 17:29
Just got the Shooting Times mag in the mail today and I wished it had more load data. Turns out that my estimation of velocity gains was pretty close to what Simpson stated as well. The other thing I forgot to mention was that the Ackley improved cartridges generally have longer brass life as well.


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: August/20/2008 at 17:43
feb 08 issue of handloader had an article on the .280ai with some reloading data, if you want it let me know i will post it.


-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Roy Finn
Date Posted: August/20/2008 at 18:10
I would appreciate that pyro.


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: August/20/2008 at 19:57
its not much but i will go ahead and post them. hodgdon has a lot of load data on there web site also.
 
120gr nbt h-4831sc  65gr  3294fps
120gr ttsx h-4831sc  64gr 3311fps
140gr tsx hunter  61gr 3137fps
150gr nbt h-4831sc  60.5gr 3012fps
154gr horn interbond h-4831sc 59.5gr 2997fps
156gr norma oryx h-4831sc 59gr 2967fps
160gr sgk  aac-3100 58gr 2940fps
175gr speer grandslam  r-22 56gr 2822 fps


-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Roy Finn
Date Posted: August/20/2008 at 20:28
Thanks pyro


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: August/25/2008 at 01:47
R30069  4080 ft per sec 55 gr accelerator out of a 30-06
R30061  3140 ft per sec 125 gr  out of a 30-06
               2910 ft per sec 150 gr out of a 30-06
                2700 ft per sec 180 gr out of a 30-06
Seems to me if you drop the weight of the bullet down you can get the speed up quit a bit.  May be its just me but Im thinking walk closer rather than paying $70 a box of ammo or having to fire form brass.   I guess cost of ammo must be more important to me than it seems to be to some of you guys.


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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: August/25/2008 at 05:57
Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

R30069  4080 ft per sec 55 gr accelerator out of a 30-06
R30061  3140 ft per sec 125 gr  out of a 30-06
               2910 ft per sec 150 gr out of a 30-06
                2700 ft per sec 180 gr out of a 30-06
Seems to me if you drop the weight of the bullet down you can get the speed up quit a bit.  May be its just me but Im thinking walk closer rather than paying $70 a box of ammo or having to fire form brass.   I guess cost of ammo must be more important to me than it seems to be to some of you guys.
cost is very important to us guys which is why we reload everything we own i can load an assload of shells for $70 and with the .280 ai your getting near 7mm mag performance from a non belted case


-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Roy Finn
Date Posted: August/25/2008 at 09:51
Walking closer is always an option. Now, for the guy who has the standard chambering, going to the "improved version" yields very little from a practical standpoint. I had my 280 Ackley build from the start as such and I don't have any regrets. Yes, fire forming is a pain in the arse, but once you do this, you are good to go. Ackley improved chamberings get longer brass life than there standard cousins, so that is a benefit as well. With the cost of factory ammo being what it is today, reloading just makes sense. If you do not reload, there is no reason to go Ackley improved. In the end, it is the sum of the improvements that makes the whole.


Posted By: jbar2506
Date Posted: March/10/2009 at 07:40
I'm having an 280 Ackley Improved built. 26" Douglas Air Gauge barrel.  Will be shooting mostly 140/150 grain bullets. My question is, "What twist 9 or 10?

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jbar


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: March/10/2009 at 08:58
1:10 for your given rates.



-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: March/10/2009 at 09:13
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

1:10 for your given rates.



+1


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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: kelly1278
Date Posted: June/08/2009 at 18:36

Has anyone tried the berger vld hunting bullets in their 280ai if so what powder worked best



Posted By: Roy Finn
Date Posted: June/08/2009 at 19:19
I would try VV165. I have also had good results with the old standby powders like IMR-4350/4831 with 140's.


Posted By: Bigdaddy0381
Date Posted: June/09/2009 at 06:35
Originally posted by kelly1278 kelly1278 wrote:

Has anyone tried the berger vld hunting bullets in their 280ai if so what powder worked best

 
160gr nosler accubond and H414 or varget.
 


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P&Z Firearms , Pro gun cleanings and gun repair and wood refinishing.

Ecclesiastes 10:2


Posted By: kelly1278
Date Posted: June/10/2009 at 18:09
i was thinking about the 168 vld . my barrel is a 9 twist lilja should shoot them pretty well . any suggestions ?


Posted By: John Barsness
Date Posted: June/11/2009 at 20:45
The loads pyro6999 quotes are from an article I wrote for HANDLOADER magazine. They were chronographed in a 22" barrel. Not bad!
 
The .280 AI is a fine cartridge. If you think there really is a big difference between the .270 and .30-06 then it kinda splits the difference.
 
Personally, after using it some, I think the .270 and .30-06 are pretty much the same thing. Load any of them with 140-165 grain bullets and they're good to go. But the .30-06 will do more at the "big" end.....
 


Posted By: Roy Finn
Date Posted: June/11/2009 at 20:49
I've been trying to tell these guys the same thing about that poor, old, broken down 30/06 and they don't listen. Maybe now that the "Voice" has spoken.....................well ya know


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: June/11/2009 at 21:03
Originally posted by John Barsness John Barsness wrote:

The loads pyro6999 quotes are from an article I wrote for HANDLOADER magazine. They were chronographed in a 22" barrel. Not bad!
 
The .280 AI is a fine cartridge. If you think there really is a big difference between the .270 and .30-06 then it kinda splits the difference.
 
Personally, after using it some, I think the .270 and .30-06 are pretty much the same thing. Load any of them with 140-165 grain bullets and they're good to go. But the .30-06 will do more at the "big" end.....
 

i personally feel like the .280AI has that added "cool" factor to it that the others simply cant compete with. other wise yeah they are so close its not funny.


-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: John Barsness
Date Posted: June/11/2009 at 21:09
Well, my voice may be somewhat jaded.
 
It's just as I've gotten older and shot more animals with various cartridges I've seen less and less difference in how they, uh, "perform."
 
If you know the rifle and shoot anything from a .270 on up to a .300 magnum, then the bullet and shooter make more difference than a few degrees in shoulder angle, or whether a bullet weighs 130 or 180 grains or starts at 2700 or 3200 fps.
 
It's fun to try for the the exactly perfect cartridge, but we care about the ballistic trivia more than the animals do.
 
The .280 gets about 50 fps more than the standard .280 with the same bullet weights at the same pressures, and maybe 100 fps more than the .270 Winchester.
 
It also gets about 100 fps less than the .30-06 with the same bullet weights loaded to the same pressures. Yeah, 7mm bullets have a little high BC, everything else being equal, but out to 500 yards there just ain't much difference even in the numbers, much less what happens when the bullet hits.
 
Sectional density also makes zip difference when using the better modern bullets. My wife has shot a number of 600-1000 pound big game animals with bullets weighing 130-165 grains with rounds like the .270, .308 and .30-06. The animals included elk, moose, zebra, kudu, wildebeest, etc.
 
Since Eileen is careful about bullet placement (and has shot a lot of animals so knows something about it) they all died very quickly. All the bullets either ended up under the hide on the far side (even on angling shots, some through the big shoulder joint) or went on through. I dunno how a .280 Ackley would have done better--especially since I have seen it at work some too.
 
But ain't it fun to agonize over tiny theoretical differences!
 
 


Posted By: 300S&W
Date Posted: June/11/2009 at 21:28
 Yep,that stuff'll drive ya "looney"!   Bucky

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"I ain't got time to bleed!"


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: June/11/2009 at 21:34
id rather have to many chamberings to pick from than not enough, but im missing a screw or two.

well so ive been told.


-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Lrangepro
Date Posted: September/14/2009 at 18:33
I've been using the 168 VLD's for 500 to about 1300 yards and I'm very pleased. Powder to try is Reloader 17. I'm getting really good groups @ about 3030fps but I've had it up to over 3100fps with not much of a pressure sign at all. I do have a 27 inch barrel, 1-9 twist. Shoots best at 2950-3050.  It also shot really great at about 2750 (about 50 grs I believe) but I wanted to see what it would do.  Start at about 49 grains to be safe and work up. There is no load info for this that I know of except what I have posted on the net. I dont want to list my load because I think its more than most guns might take but RL 17 is worth a try. It seems like this powder would be too fast but its not. I will explain why if anyone would like to hear about it but for now just trust me. About 1.5 to 2 inches at 500 yards is the norm, sometimes even better. Pretty much one hole at 100 but I shoot much farther so I test farther. I'm getting some 180's to try next.


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: September/15/2009 at 17:36
If I did not already have a 280Rem, I would definitely try 280Ackley.  It just sounds like a very cool cartridge and let's face it, we all doing this for the fun of it.  I have firearms chambered for 280Rem, 8mm Mauser, 7.62x54R, 308Win, 7.5x55Swiss and 7.5x54French.  For any practical purpose, these are essentially interchangeable.  

ILya


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Posted By: nightranger
Date Posted: September/17/2009 at 13:32
I just purchased and took delivery of a Cooper Model 52 Jackson Hunter in .280 Rem.   I balked on the .280 AI because I'm not a reloader and was concerned about the availability of factory .280 AI ammo. 
 
I mounted a Zeiss Conquest 4.5x14x44 scope on it and bore sighted it.  Took it to the range yesterday.  I used factory Federal Fusion 140 grain ammo and shot a 4-shot grouping of 1/2" @ 50 yards with ease.   Made my adjustments and sighted in at 100 yards with 3/4" grouping with no effort.  I dont know if it was an illusion but it seemed to have less recoil than my Winchester Model 70 .270. 
 
 Wow!!! Nice shooting gun.  Who needs AI after all.   


Posted By: Roy Finn
Date Posted: September/17/2009 at 13:38
The difference between the 280 and 280 Ackley is not even enough to start a good argument over. Just enjoy your new Cooper.


Posted By: nightranger
Date Posted: September/17/2009 at 13:41
No regret here. I'm as happy as a 10 year old on Christmas morning.


Posted By: Roy Finn
Date Posted: September/17/2009 at 13:44
I don't think there is a nicer factory semi-custom/production rifle on the market today, in my opinion.


Posted By: John Barsness
Date Posted: September/17/2009 at 20:38
Very good rifles! I have shot a few, and have yet to hear about one that doesn't shoot great.


Posted By: Dale Clifford
Date Posted: September/18/2009 at 09:19

got a steyr luxus when they first came out (around 75' I think) in 7x64 brenneke and used H mantle bullets (preceded nosler partitions) for a lot of game in Idaho and wyo. Any powder in the 4350 range works great, currently using WW780 with Amax (bc at .610). The main difference in reloading -- orginally the 280 was set up for the Remington auto and loaded way down. As Roy stated the 280 gives up very little to the AI when handloaded, and shows the least improvement from the Ackley formula.



Posted By: gferrett
Date Posted: September/22/2009 at 14:45
hi Dale;
Nice rifle: I like the 280 but have always had 270win.
ferrett


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: September/22/2009 at 20:16
Originally posted by gferrett gferrett wrote:

hi Dale;
Nice rifle: I like the 280 but have always had 270win.
ferrett

if you shot and reloaded a .280 you would abandon the .270win


-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: nightranger
Date Posted: October/28/2009 at 23:03
Unfortunately I can't show you my Cooper since I dont have enough post to attach photosSad


Posted By: Tip69
Date Posted: October/29/2009 at 08:05
Originally posted by nightranger nightranger wrote:

I dont know if it was an illusion but it seemed to have less recoil than my Winchester Model 70 .270. 


I had the same experience with a Model 70 in 30-06.... seemed to kick way more than a Rem Model 700 with the same exact ammo!  Sold it and have never bought another Model 70.  Mine was made in the 70's.


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take em!


Posted By: ccoker
Date Posted: October/29/2009 at 10:41
John,
while we do love all this talk and it's a lot of fun to play with the different calibers, get obsessive over it all, etc... you are right
shot placement is everything and with the right type of bullet for the intended use, game over...

you wrote an interesting article in handloader mag about the 308 and how people ask for advice on a very accurate hunting caliber and the 308 is recommended by you for lots of good reasons but everyone wants newer/faster, whatever and the real reason is they want something "cooler"

that really resonated with me.. I had a tack driving 308 (tikka), got a 270 (sako) and never really got that consistent accuracy out of it, not knocking the 270.....

I am back to a 308, so easy to load for, tons of great data, tons of great bullets, can find ammo anywhere, etc..  and VERY accurate

can't wait until next weekend!



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