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308 AR

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Category: Firearms, Bows, and Ammunition
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Topic: 308 AR
Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Subject: 308 AR
Date Posted: February/22/2018 at 14:14

Putting together an aero precision M5 set ( https://swfa.com/catalog/product/view/id/178864/ - https://swfa.com/catalog/product/view/id/178864/ ).  Wanting to make sure I am on the right train of thought. 

I purchased a LPK for the M5 from aero minus the fire control and pistol grip.   I have a barrel already from a buddy who bought a Ballistics Advantage 308 barrel then switched to creedmoor before firing the first shot.

On the rest of the build...... my impression/knowledge is that the only 308 specific parts I'll need to finish will be -

  • Buffer
  • Buffer spring
  • BCG
  • Charging handle
  • Ejection port cover

The other parts can be from the AR15 platform/size

  • pistol grip
  • handguard
  • fire control/trigger
  • handguard
  • buffer tube
  • stock
  • gas block
  • gas tube

Anything I got screwy here? 



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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln



Replies:
Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: February/22/2018 at 14:33
Handguard will need to be .308 handguard.  The barrel nuts and barrel extension are much larger. 

I just ordered a Aero M5 set on their presidents day sale one with the fitted handguard.  Have plans to do similar.  On my Mega MATEN set you could use a AR-15 tube, buffer and spring.  Not sure on the Aero either, when mine arrives I plan to try the AR-15 tube and see if it works or not as I have several laying around. 

I really wanted to do a lightweight upper and lower, but the Aero is only 6 ozs heavier than the 2A armament with the handguard I would have chose with it.  More than twice the price for 6 ozs was to hard to swallow. 


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: February/22/2018 at 16:25
I would do a 308 trigger, not an AR15 trigger, you can get bumpfires due to higher recoil. Timney makes AR10 triggers, I use those.

But people do use AR15 triggers in AR10s. Maybe you get lucky and get a full auto with no stamp.

-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: February/22/2018 at 16:27

I'd rather be on the safe side.  I noticed a few triggers marked AR10 so I will look for one of those rather than take a chance



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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: February/22/2018 at 16:56
I was mistaken on the spring and buffer.  I was thinking I bought a AR-15 one, but mine is the JP AR-10 model.  I jsut used ar AR-15 rifle tube. 


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: February/23/2018 at 07:49

Gotcha   Its  a bit cluttered with information out there on what is and isn't compatible..... Got to decide on a handguard now...... so many options



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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: Chris Farris II
Date Posted: February/23/2018 at 10:46
Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

Putting together an aero precision M5 set ( https://swfa.com/catalog/product/view/id/178864/ - https://swfa.com/catalog/product/view/id/178864/ ).  Wanting to make sure I am on the right train of thought. 

I purchased a LPK for the M5 from aero minus the fire control and pistol grip.   I have a barrel already from a buddy who bought a Ballistics Advantage 308 barrel then switched to creedmoor before firing the first shot.

On the rest of the build...... my impression/knowledge is that the only 308 specific parts I'll need to finish will be -

  • Buffer
  • Buffer spring
  • BCG
  • Charging handle
  • Ejection port cover

The other parts can be from the AR15 platform/size

  • pistol grip
  • handguard
  • fire control/trigger
  • handguard
  • buffer tube
  • stock
  • gas block
  • gas tube

Anything I got screwy here? 



Handguard needs to be for AR-10, there are also different variants for height etc. so be careful there.

Better to go ahead and get an AR-10 trigger. If you get Timney be sure to get anti walk pins they are notorious for the standard pins falling out after use. 

Aero sells a Carbine Buffer Tube & Spring Kit for the M5.
http://aeroprecisionusa.com/m5-308-carbine-buffer-kit.html - https://aeroprecisionusa.com/m5-308-carbine-buffer-kit.html



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One day your life will flash before your eyes; Make sure it's worth watching.


Posted By: Chris Farris II
Date Posted: February/23/2018 at 10:52
You can build the whole thing virtually and look at available/compatible options on http://https://www.ar15.com/gunstruction/ - Gunstruction . They also have an app. It is very useful for this type of stuff. 

-------------
One day your life will flash before your eyes; Make sure it's worth watching.


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: February/23/2018 at 11:19
Originally posted by Chris Farris II Chris Farris II wrote:

If you get Timney be sure to get anti walk pins they are notorious for the standard pins falling out after use.



I think this is an issue of people not tightening down the tension screws in the trigger housing and using the set screws.  I ran two Timneys for years, still have one of them.  I took the one I still have through several carbine classes and lots and lots of rounds and I have never had a pin come loose.  They also come with a second set screw you tighten ontop of the tension screw so they cannot back out.  I dare bet most of the problems on the net are people not following the instructions.  I put a dab of blue locktite on my set screws and its never been an issue.

Timney instruction video
https://www.timneytriggers.com/videogallery/ar/how-to-install-a-timney-trigger-in-your-ar-rifle-28/ - https://www.timneytriggers.com/videogallery/ar/how-to-install-a-timney-trigger-in-your-ar-rifle-28/


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: February/23/2018 at 11:24
Think I'm going to try a UBR on this one.  Should just have to have a carbine buffer and spring for the 308AR

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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: February/23/2018 at 11:26
most of the parts are on order now.  hand guard and trigger are the only not decided yet.

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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: February/23/2018 at 11:41
Carbon fiber fore is a good way to shed some weight out front, especially if it will be suppressed.

-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: February/23/2018 at 12:28

It will be suppressed.  looking at gas blocks and options to help with gas as well.  Thinking the seekins adjustable will be ok. 


Only concern I have with the CF is the durability using a bipod


RC,  what CF one do you recommend?  Not seeing one designated for 308AR



-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: February/23/2018 at 13:13
The 12" Aero one is only 9.3 oz's.  Lancer carbon fibers weight more than that. 


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: Chris Farris II
Date Posted: February/23/2018 at 13:28
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Originally posted by Chris Farris II Chris Farris II wrote:

If you get Timney be sure to get anti walk pins they are notorious for the standard pins falling out after use.



I think this is an issue of people not tightening down the tension screws in the trigger housing and using the set screws.  I ran two Timneys for years, still have one of them.  I took the one I still have through several carbine classes and lots and lots of rounds and I have never had a pin come loose.  They also come with a second set screw you tighten ontop of the tension screw so they cannot back out.  I dare bet most of the problems on the net are people not following the instructions.  I put a dab of blue locktite on my set screws and its never been an issue.

Timney instruction video
https://www.timneytriggers.com/videogallery/ar/how-to-install-a-timney-trigger-in-your-ar-rifle-28/ - https://www.timneytriggers.com/videogallery/ar/how-to-install-a-timney-trigger-in-your-ar-rifle-28/
I have tightened them down for customers myself and had them come back many of times with no pins. I have also had people that never have any issues with them. May very well be user error after it left the shop, but those pins are pretty cheap and worth the peace of mind to me.

I actually prefer the standard style aftermarket triggers like Geissele to the drop in but I have some CMCs and have had Timney before. 

-------------
One day your life will flash before your eyes; Make sure it's worth watching.


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: February/23/2018 at 13:33
CF2, you tried Elftmann yet?  I am really liking the one I bought. 


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: Chris Farris II
Date Posted: February/23/2018 at 13:44
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

CF2, you tried Elftmann yet?  I am really liking the one I bought. 
I have played with and dry fired them, they feel nice. I have zero range time with them though. 

-------------
One day your life will flash before your eyes; Make sure it's worth watching.


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: February/23/2018 at 14:02
Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

It will be suppressed.  looking at gas blocks and options to help with gas as well.  Thinking the seekins adjustable will be ok. 


Only concern I have with the CF is the durability using a bipod


RC,  what CF one do you recommend?  Not seeing one designated for 308AR






My only experience with a 308 carbon fiber is with a Lancer on a Sig716, but the longer rail weights about as much as the much shorter aluminum rail, and I like that.  I haven't looked for AR10 fore ends, but I would, were I building a new one.

On gas blocks, yes, get an adjustable.  AR10s are notoriously overgassed.


-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: February/23/2018 at 15:08
If you do not need too many rails, consider Brigand handguard.

ILya


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http://www.opticsthoughts.com - www.opticsthoughts.com
http://fb.me/DarkLordOfOptics - Facebook
https://www.instagram.com/darklordofoptics/ - Instagram


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: February/23/2018 at 15:26
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

CF2, you tried Elftmann yet?  I am really liking the one I bought. 


+1

I just recently got the Elftmann 3-Gun curved version for my new ultralight Grendel build, and it’s a really nice trigger! I set mine for 2.5 lbs.

-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: February/23/2018 at 15:28
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

If you do not need too many rails, consider Brigand handguard.

ILya


There is no hand guard that is lighter, that’s for certain!

-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: February/23/2018 at 15:32

RC tried to fix the spacing on your post.... Thanks for the insight.


Dont' need much by way of rails other than a rail on the bottom and maybe the ability to add on at the 3 or 9 position for a light..... don't believe I'll need full length or anything.



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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: February/23/2018 at 15:33
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

If you do not need too many rails, consider Brigand handguard.

ILya


Them things is spendy!



-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: February/23/2018 at 15:51
Looks like the ATLAS has a few rails right at the end.

https://brigandarms.com/product/atlas/ - https://brigandarms.com/product/atlas/


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: February/27/2018 at 09:31
7 ounces, wow.  I might have some concerns on durability and stuff getting caught in all that carbon webbing.

-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: February/27/2018 at 10:01
Just wrap some Saran Wrap around it and you can have no worries. 


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: February/27/2018 at 11:22
upper and lower arrived over the weekend, LPK from Aero arrived yesterday.... they don't include the 4-40 set screw for the spring and detent for the safety selector..... WTH?  Other than that like the upper and lower allot, the screw in pins for the forward assist and bolt catch are nice to keep from having to use a pin........ fit is nice, finish is nice.   There is a tensioning screw to help with lockup between lower and upper but its under the pistol grip and would have to be removed to adjust, guess once you set it you could Loctite it but after a while the polymer tip will settle and i'm sure need to be turned more.....

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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: February/27/2018 at 11:23
Uh-huh, that's what I want: a $400 rail system that requires duct tape and baling wire to do what I need.

They do look cool, and are super light weight.


-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: February/27/2018 at 11:25
I am betting you got shorted.  The kit shows those parts with it on their picture.  I bet if you call them up they will send replacements. 




-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: February/27/2018 at 11:30
Looking more the 4-40 set screw is for the rear take down pin and is not in that picture.  Should come with the lower i bet though. 


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: February/27/2018 at 12:46
I thought that as well ST.... the box that the lower came in stated on the box that it used a 4-40 set screw then a couple lines down said it used the screw for the bolt catch (Included) was beside it.... I don't think they include the 4-40.... I am calling though. just haven't had the time.

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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: February/27/2018 at 12:49
Let me know what you find out.  Mine should be shipping to my FFL any day from Aero. 


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: February/27/2018 at 13:01
The answer is no, they do not supply that set screw with lowers or LPK's from them even though they drill and tap their lowers for it? And they don't sell that set screw either.......  WTH Aero Precision

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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: February/27/2018 at 13:01
Wow, that is retarded.  Did they say where we get one?


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: February/27/2018 at 13:02
I ordered a set of them ST.  PM your address I'll mail you one or two.

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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: February/27/2018 at 13:03
Looks like amazon has them.  https://www.amazon.com/Socket-Screws-Stainless-Wrench-Length/dp/B072MBLJ9C/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1519758162&sr=8-3&keywords=4%2F40+set+screw - https://www.amazon.com/Socket-Screws-Stainless-Wrench-Length/dp/B072MBLJ9C/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1519758162&sr=8-3&keywords=4%2F40+set+screw


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: February/27/2018 at 13:05

That's the ones I ordered. 

I don't need 10..... if you want some let me know



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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: February/27/2018 at 13:07
Thanks Graham.  I have a bunch of stuff like that left over from Grandpa's stash.  Now that I see a pick of them I will see what he has.  If not I will hit you up.



-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: February/27/2018 at 13:08

ok, just let me know




-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: February/27/2018 at 13:33
Did they say how long they need to be?


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: Chris Farris II
Date Posted: February/27/2018 at 13:54
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Did they say how long they need to be?
I haven't done an Aero, but on the ones I have done I had to trim the spring a bit or the tension was ungodly tight. If these are the same then it doesn't really matter how long the screw is. 

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One day your life will flash before your eyes; Make sure it's worth watching.


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: February/27/2018 at 14:05
length doesn't matter but I got the shortest ones to keep spring as long as possible

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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: February/28/2018 at 16:23

Put the UBR on the receiver last night.  Think its going to work ok. 




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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: February/28/2018 at 16:34
I have a UBR and mostly like it.  I am not a huge fan of the screw-in on the end, it always seems I have to over-tighten mine to make it all stay snugged up.

Otherwise, great stock, not light, but very solid.


-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: February/28/2018 at 21:27
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Wow, that is retarded.  Did they say where we get one?

Just go to a Fastenal. You can pick up a handful of set screws for pennies.

Another place you can find small set screws is any hobby store that sells RC models (Planes, cars, boats, helicopters, drones, etc.). 4-40 is a common size for that hobby.

However, technically you don't need the set screw. The end plate keeps the spring and detent contained just fine once you tighten the castle nut, and most ARs don't have a set screw.


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: February/28/2018 at 21:34
Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

.... they don't include the 4-40 set screw for the spring and detent for the safety selector..... WTH? 

They use a set screw there? Why? So you can remove the grip without the spring and detent coming out? Do you plan to remove the grip often? Every AR I've ever played with didn't have a set screw there; only a counterbore on the top of the grip and the grip itself contained the spring and detent.


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: February/28/2018 at 21:36
My seekins lower has a set screw. I like it a lot and will want one for this lower. Granps had some small set screws, if my lower ever gets here i will try them


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: February/28/2018 at 21:43
What's the advantage of having set screws? So you can adjust spring tension? So you can remove the buffer tube and/or grip without the spring flying out? I've never used set screws for the takedown pin or safety selector and have never had any issues with function. I've never wanted more spring tension than what you get from the conventional spring length and containment method. Most AR lowers don't have set screws.

-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: February/28/2018 at 23:08
Yep, i hate the springs and detents falling out when i take things apart. Its just a preference for me

-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: February/28/2018 at 23:19
I am speaking for the rear takedown pin. Thats what seekins has and my mega as well. I have never seen one on the safety detent either. That would require cutting the spring very very short

-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: Chris Farris II
Date Posted: March/01/2018 at 08:40
Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

.... they don't include the 4-40 set screw for the spring and detent for the safety selector..... WTH? 

Ted thought you meant for the Safety selector because of how that post was worded. Lol 

I believe what SVT meant was, "They don't include the 4-40 set screw for the takedown spring nor do they include the detent for the safety selector."

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One day your life will flash before your eyes; Make sure it's worth watching.


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: March/01/2018 at 08:52
You're correct, CF. That's exactly how I interpreted his post. I was thinking that was really weird, as it would then require a much shorter selector spring, and couldn't figure out what the benefit to that would be to justify having to use a non-standard length spring.

I can sort of see the benefit to having a set screw behind the takedown pin spring, though I'm not in the habit of ever removing the buffer tube once installed, and the end plate contains the spring just fine.


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: March/01/2018 at 09:59
yeah bad wording -   the rear take down pin is the one that is tapped for the set screw and is located under the grip beside the safety selector  hole. not on the rear of the receiver like most.

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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: March/01/2018 at 10:01
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

I have a UBR and mostly like it.  I am not a huge fan of the screw-in on the end, it always seems I have to over-tighten mine to make it all stay snugged up.

Otherwise, great stock, not light, but very solid.


I use just a touch of Loctite on that screw and have never had it move in use.  It was a pain to remove and reinstall on this receiver though.



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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: March/01/2018 at 10:10
Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

yeah bad wording -   the rear take down pin is the one that is tapped for the set screw and is located under the grip beside the safety selector  hole. not on the rear of the receiver like most.

Ah, I see. If it's not located on the rear of the lower receiver where it's contained by the end plate, it would then REQUIRE a set screw.


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: March/01/2018 at 11:08
yeah its directy beside the safety selector hole under the grip.   I've had other receivers that are on the rear with a set screw as well.   I like the set screw

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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: March/02/2018 at 22:57
all myparts arrived today  just assembled it  8.2 lbs with my ACOG  not to bad for a large frame




-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: Sparky
Date Posted: March/03/2018 at 11:17
Very nice!!


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: March/05/2018 at 08:21

Got all my parts in but an adjustable gas block...... how I missed that I don't know. Used a standard but with the suppressor she blows back grim everywhere. 


ST did you get the 4-40 set screws?



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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: March/05/2018 at 08:30
They are dirty, will be with the adjustable too, just not as much.

-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: March/05/2018 at 09:17
Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

Got all my parts in but an adjustable gas block...... how I missed that I don't know. Used a standard but with the suppressor she blows back grim everywhere. 


ST did you get the 4-40 set screws?



I did.  Grandpop had a little baggy that had 3 in it in his fastener cabinet.

I really think you could get away with not using one.  The grip itself could hold that spring in place just as it does the safety spring.  But I use one for the heck of it.   


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: March/05/2018 at 09:19
A loaded 20 round mag took my weight from 8.2 to 9.8  Then my 30p-1 added another lb.  Now pushing 11.  haha.  Freaking ammo, who needs it anyway. 


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: March/05/2018 at 09:28

Finding magpul mags for it is a chore, finally picked up a few but not sure I'll want to carry it loaded with them lol 


They are heavy. With the thermal and suppressor its not something you'll tote, far.



-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: March/05/2018 at 09:37
I ordered some sand colored pmags then I could differentiate easily from the black ones I use in my 6.5 creed. Based on the online picture I could tell they were lighter colored than dark earth but they didn't look to bad.  But it turns out they are near white.  Why on earth they could make them that color is beyond me.  Who the heck wants a white mag.  Guess I will paint them now.  


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: March/05/2018 at 09:38
magazines kind of went poof again in the last few weeks. 


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: March/05/2018 at 10:18

Yeah and lowers are flying off the shelves too




-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: March/05/2018 at 10:23
A .308 AR was the last one I needed/wanted.  I have 7 different calibers in ARs now.  Shouldn't need anything else so I can avoid the panics going forward, thank goodness. 


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: March/05/2018 at 10:29
Nice rifle Jason!

-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: March/05/2018 at 10:30
Thanks Ted

What are you scoping yours with Graham?


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: March/05/2018 at 10:41
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

A .308 AR was the last one I needed/wanted.  I have 7 different calibers in ARs now.  Shouldn't need anything else so I can avoid the panics going forward, thank goodness. 

I've noted lately that I have many calibers and they all take only 2 different magazines.  I noticed on a trip late last year that I had both 6.5CM ammo and 308 ammo in pmags - and, in a quick grab, they don't look terribly different.  

Be careful!

I've decided to only pack one caliber per mag type for any serious shooting work.  

I need to give some thought to how I permanently mark mags for specific calibers - then never swap them out.




-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: March/05/2018 at 11:06
I only take out one caliber at a time for that exact reason.  A kaboom would suck indeed.  I run brown AR mags for my 300 blks, and black for 223s.  Am doing the same for my .308 and my 6.5 creed. 

The 6.8 and my two 6.8 wildcats are the ones I really have to watch, especially since they all have a 6.8 head stamp brass.  I use the same mags for all of those.  I have pretty much retired the 6.8, don't even have the barrel on a gun at the moment.  So I use SSA brass for my six5 and starline brass for my 5.56x42.  Hopefully if I mess up it will be shooting the 5.56x42 in the six5. 


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: March/05/2018 at 11:07

Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Thanks Ted

What are you scoping yours with Graham?


Still undecided.  Currently has an old Springfield 6X gov't scope on it but want to see how my thermal will work on it once I get the gas situation figured out.  If its way over gassed still after I adjust down I will put the thermal on my Grendel and scope the 308 with something else... I have several guns to scope and still ain't figured it all out.



-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: March/05/2018 at 11:20
I had a hard time deciding as well.  I like the ACOG because of how light it is, but it has drawbacks.  I also have my Leupold VX-r patrol 3-9 I could use and it may get switched back and forth between the two.  I am also tempted to put my 1-4x accupoint on it. 

I am never content with scopes.  I want the weight of a red dot, but the versatility of a variable.  I am always switching things around. 


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: March/05/2018 at 11:44
Gas buster charging handle will help too.  Keep in mind there are 2 source of crap: the gas system and the bore. 

It's awesome unloading a gun after using in a humid or rainy environment and wondering who swapped your new, shiny ammo for WW1 surplus-looking ammo that looks to have been dug up recently - and surreptitiously loaded into your magazine.

You shoot suppressed, everything gets dirty, dirty, dirty.  A piston operating system helps quite a bit - reducing the sources grime from 2 to 1, but still plenty will finds its way into your gun, and some in your face.

Wear shooting glasses. Always.


-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: March/05/2018 at 11:46

I have a hard time with wants/needs..... like having the low end but also love the upper mags but hate paying for high ratio as well......  My perfect scope would be like a 3-18x42 illuminated reticle, with exposed locking turrets, side parallax adjustments, capped windage.  Debate on a Christmas tree reticle or just a ranging reticle like the mil quad. All this under a $750 price tag lol




-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: March/05/2018 at 11:49
IS there a piston conversion for the 308AR?

-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: March/05/2018 at 11:52
I don't know of one.  Years back there was rumors Adams arms was making one, but I have yet to see the kit.  They make full piston rifles though. 

All the .308 rifles are a bit different, so a kit would not likely work on 95% of them.  Where with AR-15 there is a standard it makes sense to have them. 


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: March/05/2018 at 11:56
Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

I have a hard time with wants/needs..... like having the low end but also love the upper mags but hate paying for high ratio as well......  My perfect scope would be like a 3-18x42 illuminated reticle, with exposed locking turrets, side parallax adjustments, capped windage.  Debate on a Christmas tree reticle or just a ranging reticle like the mil quad. All this under a $750 price tag lol




And then weight 8 oz's too. 


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: March/05/2018 at 14:25
I don’t know of a conversion, mine is factory. And I like it.
On the scope, I have really gotten to love a red dot offsetfor close and a 3-9 for almost anything else.

The more I use a Christmas tree reticle, the more I like them. And they are easy to check for accuracy. And faster. And no getting lost on the turret.

-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: March/05/2018 at 15:25
I'm hesitant to spend the money on a good scope with a Christmas tree reticle... thinking I will try a cheaper one first to see how it works in practice(ish) then if so spend more.   Leupold had a nice on in the mark 6 line up I believe calibrated for 308

-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: March/05/2018 at 15:57
I just went and shot 20 rounds out of mine.  I forgot to bring my oil and it still ran perfectly.  My gas block was on my 6.5 creed and tuned for it.  It seemed just right for my .308 as well.  Recoil was very moderate.  I was pleased with it.

I was shooting some 165 grain hornday bullets with 43.5 grain or Varget.  I zeroed at 100 and then shot a few rocks at 400, 500, and 600 yards.  At 400 and 500 my ACOG BDC was very close.  At 600 I was a bit short.  I can live with that.  I can probably load those a bit hotter and mabye get that 600 a bit closer. 

Overall in the first 20 rounds, I really liked it. 


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: March/05/2018 at 16:19
Which ACOG are you using?

-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: March/05/2018 at 16:29
TA33-C with the 7.62 triangle BDC


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: March/05/2018 at 22:10
I think if I was putting this together for a defensive rifle system the ACOG would be sufficient but I see me using it more as a hunting gun so I think I'm still thinking this will wear the thermal.  Would rather have the extra umpff when using it over the Grendel, plus the grendel is so perfectly set up for me I hate to mess with it. 

-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: March/06/2018 at 15:57
So I just went out and tuned my Superlative arms gas block to my load.  It has wide open, restricted, and bleed off settings.  4 1/2 turns is wide open.  Anything below that is restricted and anything more than that is starts to bleed it out the front of the gas block.  1 3/4 turns from tight in the restricted setting had my brass ejecting at near 3:00.  It was not even denting them case mouth up.  That setting worked well.  At 1 1/2 I was ejecting at about 3:30 to 4.  I may run it at the 1 1/2 hoping that setting will work both with and without the suppressor. 

The bleed off didn't seem to work so well.  I ran it all the way to the end and it was still shooting the brass between 1 and 2:00.  So I guess I will run this one restricted.  Maybe the .308 just has to much gas for it. 


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: March/23/2018 at 09:59

Finally got a chance to get a photo from last week uploaded.   Currently its wearing a thermal scope for a weekend coyote round up.




-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: March/23/2018 at 10:55
I'd shoot THAT… looks like a good "put together"...

-------------
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: Tip69
Date Posted: March/23/2018 at 11:33
ley us know how the 'round-up' goes!

-------------
take em!


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: March/23/2018 at 13:21
Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

Finally got a chance to get a photo from last week uploaded.   Currently its wearing a thermal scope for a weekend coyote round up.



Nice! I may have missed it, but which thermal scope do you have?


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: March/23/2018 at 14:54

I got this one a while back when they had a sale - https://swfa.com/armasight-2-8x25-predator-336-thermal-imaging-weapon-sight-178300.html - https://swfa.com/armasight-2-8x25-predator-336-thermal-imaging-weapon-sight-178300.html

So far I like it... ok.  not all I had hoped for but for the budget I think its fine.  New to me but you may know the power range of 2-8 is really  2X, 4X, or 8X..... not a gradual increase but double steps.   At 8X resolution is out the window and making out detail is out the window... you can tell its a critter but not much about said critter.  Another interesting tidbit is the difference in POI from 100 to 50  I think the height of optic is the factor there.  zero'ed at 50yds its 5-7" high at 100 so finding the best sight in distance is my challenge.  I have it set at 100 currently and going to use during a coyote classic this weekend and see how it works.  I did shoot at hot hands packet at 200yds to see where it hit and it was 2" off so I'm thinking that's enough for a yote'.  Shooting 110gr loads so they are the flattest I can and max i'm shooting with this is around 200 so hoping it will do the job.  Case of setting up for just this tournament as I normally want something with more umpf behind it.



-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: Chris Farris II
Date Posted: March/23/2018 at 15:02
Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

I got this one a while back when they had a sale - https://swfa.com/armasight-2-8x25-predator-336-thermal-imaging-weapon-sight-178300.html - https://swfa.com/armasight-2-8x25-predator-336-thermal-imaging-weapon-sight-178300.html

So far I like it... ok.  not all I had hoped for but for the budget I think its fine.  New to me but you may know the power range of 2-8 is really  2X, 4X, or 8X..... not a gradual increase but double steps.   At 8X resolution is out the window and making out detail is out the window... you can tell its a critter but not much about said critter.  Another interesting tidbit is the difference in POI from 100 to 50  I think the height of optic is the factor there.  zero'ed at 50yds its 5-7" high at 100 so finding the best sight in distance is my challenge.  I have it set at 100 currently and going to use during a coyote classic this weekend and see how it works.  I did shoot at hot hands packet at 200yds to see where it hit and it was 2" off so I'm thinking that's enough for a yote'.  Shooting 110gr loads so they are the flattest I can and max i'm shooting with this is around 200 so hoping it will do the job.  Case of setting up for just this tournament as I normally want something with more umpf behind it.

Man, you are the first person I have ever heard that wasn't happy with their thermals. I thought you would be ecstatic. Most of all of my personal experience with them is on the Zues line though not the Predator. Although I didn't expect there to be that much of a difference between the two. I am sorry you don't like it. I still bet it trumps any other thermal for what the sale price was. If you decide you don't want it let me know. 

-------------
One day your life will flash before your eyes; Make sure it's worth watching.


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: March/23/2018 at 15:46
Oh its still cool as hell but should be marketed as a 4x trying to get to 8x with it is just not good thinking on Aramasights part.  I'm spending field time with it this weekend and I'll also have a rather extensive review on it soon.  If I'm smart enough, with video.

-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: March/23/2018 at 22:16
Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:


I got this one a while back when they had a sale - https://swfa.com/armasight-2-8x25-predator-336-thermal-imaging-weapon-sight-178300.html - https://swfa.com/armasight-2-8x25-predator-336-thermal-imaging-weapon-sight-178300.html

So far I like it... ok.  not all I had hoped for but for the budget I think its fine.  New to me but you may know the power range of 2-8 is really  2X, 4X, or 8X..... not a gradual increase but double steps.   At 8X resolution is out the window and making out detail is out the window... you can tell its a critter but not much about said critter.  



That's just the nature of thermal sights in general, bro...all of them I'm aware of, at least. They don't zoom optically, they zoom by digital interpolation. So, once you zoom, the image becomes very pixellated because it isn't adding any more detail, it's just enlarging the image seen at base magnification, which in your case is actually 1.6X. The advantage of zooming is seen more for things like zeroing the scope, where you are just putting the crosshairs in the center of a larger "blob." You have a low resolution detector of 336X240 pixels (as do I with my FLIR). If you step up to the next higher resolution detector, you can pretty much expect to add another $1500 at least to the price tag. I never zoom while hunting; I only use base magnification, and still the capability a thermal scope brings is awesome. When you're used to conventional optics, thermal is always going to have poor resolution in comparison. However, making out fine details is not the strength of thermal optics; it's in being able to see living things in stark contrast to the surroundings in pitch black darkness. Thermal is more effective than conventional NV in that regard because it doesn't amplify existing light, doesn't depend on some available light to work, and it makes anything warm stand out from its surroundings with extreme contrast. The darker it gets, the better it works. Critters also have a harder time hiding because you can see their heat signature behind foliage, grass, brush, etc. Even the highest resolution thermal optics don't have great resolution compared to a conventional optic, because you aren't seeing reflected light in the full color spectrum as you do with a conventional optic; you're seeing a heat map, and details seen are due to contrasting levels of infrared heat.

Keep in mind that if humidity is high you will also get lower resolution, so resolution seen on some nights will appear better than others.

Your Armasight Predator 336 is a very good thermal scope, especially for the price. The technology is still very expensive. To get the really exceptional thermal optics, you can expect to spend a minimum of $5K or so.


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: March/23/2018 at 23:40
Good summary.

Maybe I should do my next video on thermal vs night vision. I sorta work with these for a living.

ILya

-------------
http://www.opticsthoughts.com - www.opticsthoughts.com
http://fb.me/DarkLordOfOptics - Facebook
https://www.instagram.com/darklordofoptics/ - Instagram


Posted By: Pirate Joe
Date Posted: March/23/2018 at 23:41
Rifle Dude you give me a Chubby 🍤


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: March/24/2018 at 11:25
Originally posted by Pirate Joe Pirate Joe wrote:

   Rifle Dude you give me a Chubby 🍤


Thanks Pirate! Unfortunately, if people stare too deeply into my eyes, 96.8% of the time it causes them to instantaneously fall in love.

-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: Sparky
Date Posted: March/24/2018 at 12:31
Yes good info Ted!!


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: March/24/2018 at 12:57
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by Pirate Joe Pirate Joe wrote:

   Rifle Dude you give me a Chubby 🍤


Thanks Pirate! Unfortunately, if people stare too deeply into my eyes, 96.8% of the time it causes them to instantaneously fall in love.

Aren't you guys related???



EEeeeeeewwwwwww...


-------------
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: Tip69
Date Posted: March/24/2018 at 15:27
I'll check back on this thread when I hit the Lotto! 

-------------
take em!


Posted By: Chris Farris II
Date Posted: March/24/2018 at 15:31
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:


I got this one a while back when they had a sale - https://swfa.com/armasight-2-8x25-predator-336-thermal-imaging-weapon-sight-178300.html - https://swfa.com/armasight-2-8x25-predator-336-thermal-imaging-weapon-sight-178300.html

So far I like it... ok.  not all I had hoped for but for the budget I think its fine.  New to me but you may know the power range of 2-8 is really  2X, 4X, or 8X..... not a gradual increase but double steps.   At 8X resolution is out the window and making out detail is out the window... you can tell its a critter but not much about said critter.  



That's just the nature of thermal sights in general, bro...all of them I'm aware of, at least. They don't zoom optically, they zoom by digital interpolation. So, once you zoom, the image becomes very pixellated because it isn't adding any more detail, it's just enlarging the image seen at base magnification, which in your case is actually 1.6X. The advantage of zooming is seen more for things like zeroing the scope, where you are just putting the crosshairs in the center of a larger "blob." You have a low resolution detector of 336X240 pixels (as do I with my FLIR). If you step up to the next higher resolution detector, you can pretty much expect to add another $1500 at least to the price tag. I never zoom while hunting; I only use base magnification, and still the capability a thermal scope brings is awesome. When you're used to conventional optics, thermal is always going to have poor resolution in comparison. However, making out fine details is not the strength of thermal optics; it's in being able to see living things in stark contrast to the surroundings in pitch black darkness. Thermal is more effective than conventional NV in that regard because it doesn't amplify existing light, doesn't depend on some available light to work, and it makes anything warm stand out from its surroundings with extreme contrast. The darker it gets, the better it works. Critters also have a harder time hiding because you can see their heat signature behind foliage, grass, brush, etc. Even the highest resolution thermal optics don't have great resolution compared to a conventional optic, because you aren't seeing reflected light in the full color spectrum as you do with a conventional optic; you're seeing a heat map, and details seen are due to contrasting levels of infrared heat.

Keep in mind that if humidity is high you will also get lower resolution, so resolution seen on some nights will appear better than others.

Your Armasight Predator 336 is a very good thermal scope, especially for the price. The technology is still very expensive. To get the really exceptional thermal optics, you can expect to spend a minimum of $5K or so.
The $5k pricetag was exactly what I told him also. Very well said post by the way. 

-------------
One day your life will flash before your eyes; Make sure it's worth watching.



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