Print Page | Close Window

After much consideration - I hate Glocks

Printed From: OpticsTalk by SWFA, Inc.
Category: Firearms, Bows, and Ammunition
Forum Name: Firearms
Forum Description: All makes, models and uses
URL: http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=45050
Printed Date: March/24/2019 at 07:52
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: After much consideration - I hate Glocks
Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Subject: After much consideration - I hate Glocks
Date Posted: August/21/2018 at 09:51
 Maybe I should take a step back and try again.

I'm a 1911 guy, I learned on the old WW2-era guns, then moved into M9s.  This was just after the days of "real men carry wheel guns" and long before the days of "Tupperware" firearms.  So, yes, I am getting old.

Anyway, my point is that indexing for me was trained in long, long ago on guns that don't have Glock's grip angle.  For full disclosure, I completely agree that a Glock wrist with proper index is a far more stable platform - from a pure physics perspective - than is an upright 1911 wrist.  But I learned on what I learned on, it works for me, and shooting is a confidence game.

A few years ago, I decided to get my first Glock - then I got probably 5 or 6 more.  The damned things work, and well.  They are adequately accurate for a combat handgun, and their single greatest strength - reliability - is the singular most important characteristic of a combat handgun (opinions might vary here, but probably not by much.)

So, first Glock was a 30, I hated the sights, I hated the trigger (most of all), and I hated the stubby frame that prevented a full purchase.  But it was small, disappeared easily in my wardrobe, and had 10 rounds of 45 on tap when/if needed.  That is 3 more rounds than a full size 1911, in a gun far more concealable.

From there, I went to a G22 and 26 and 43 and 36 and 17 and 19 and 34 and... all the while, accepting that the trigger was not going to break how I wanted and my hands are too damned big for the trigger well and something other than the pad of my trigger finger was going to drag something somewhere.  I tried a Lonewolf frame to alleviate at least the finger drag (and it worked), but was left with the trigger break.

I  shot them all, I tried to love the blocky, plastic masterpiece of modern engineering, I suffered through the trigger pull if only for the knowledge that the gun on my hip is all but failsafe - and, again, in a gunfight, a handgun that doesn't function is little more than a rock.

For me, it came down to confidence in a 1911 (or similar) or confidence in a Glock, and for a few years, Glock won out.  The HKs and 1911s stayed in the safe while the Glocks road out with me.  This is also due in no small part to the fact that Glock is very much weather impervious, and is a great summer gun if only because sweat doesn't rust the thing under normal conditions.

Then, a few weeks ago, I decided to try a Sig FiveX, and the Glocks are now all for sale - or soon will be.  The reasoning is fairly straightforward: all the things I hate about Glock are absent from the Sig (but it does have a few issues of its own - just "other" issues.)  The Sig indexes perfectly for me, the trigger is orders of magnitude better- at least in break, and my hand just fits the gun better.

With the new Sig's first trip to the range, I alternated between it and a gen4 34MOS (with Shield RMS - but that's a different thread)and the Sig was so much better as to make it not even close.  Then I went to Lonewolf (with RMR) and the Sig, and the Sig won yet again: better trigger break, neither have an impressive reset.  The Sig wasn't locking open on an empty mag, but that started disappearing after about 300 rounds, running 10 rounds through all 4 of the 21-round mags in rotation.  That was the only hiccup of the day.

So now with a shelf full of Glocks and accessories, I have finally found a Tupperware gun I like more - and I like it for all the reasons I didn't like the Glock.  

In yet another post, at some point, I can go over RMS vs RMR vs iron sights.  Then maybe throw the HK P30 into the mix, just to make sure everyone the world over disagrees with me entirely.

For now, the Glocks are still in the rotation, but only till I can get a Carry kit installed and broken in.  Then the "for sale" will go up, I anticipate.


-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.



Replies:
Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: August/21/2018 at 10:39
If this is intended as a carry gun and you're a 320 fan and prefer the X trigger over the standard 320, why the Five-X instead of the X-Carry? I get the appeal of 21+1 rounds on board and all, but man, that's a huge parcel for an everyday CCW. I think I could live with "only" 17+1 capacity.

In the world of "Tupperware" pistols, I've become a huge fan of the Walther PPQ, but the regulars here likely know that already. Not everyone likes the more "contoured" grip ergos it has; that's a personal preference thing. It happens to fit my hand perfectly with the "medium" back strap installed. As far as triggers are concerned, there is no stock striker fired polymer pistol currently made with a better trigger. There are perhaps a couple that come close or are "just as good," but none better.


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: August/21/2018 at 10:48
 The Xfive (or fiveX or whatever) was more an experiment than a concerted effort to displace the Glocks.

I didn't expect to like it as much as I do - and for the reasons I do.

The Carry is more an extension of the experiment.


-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: urbaneruralite
Date Posted: August/21/2018 at 11:59
Glocks are the AK47 of handguns. That is not a good thing. I was lucky in that putting a Glock in my hand is like trying to put like poles of a magnet together. I owned one for about as long as I owned an AK. 

My use of handguns, besides targets, is hunting and concealed carry. That means DA revolvers for hunting and DAO revolvers for carry. There is no place in my use of handguns for training on a weird grip with a limited use platform. 

Agree on the Walther PP line as the zenith of plastic pistol design. I realize most people prefer pistols, even when they're the wrong tool, so I recommend PPS, PPQ or SW99 whenever anyone asks. 

And I think the reason so many professional users are such bad shots is because a normal amount of training is not enough to overcome the odd Glock design.


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: August/21/2018 at 12:55
 It's funny you should mention that, having used AKs and ARs extensively, the metaphor is fairly accurate: both are made relatively cheaply with loose tolerances to allow easy swapping and robust function in various environments and circumstances.  There is much to be said for the durability of a good AK - just as with a Glock.

For many, reliability is paramount - as well it should be - and Glock is one of the best options of the semi-auto kind.  Your option is also quite good, though less capable of a sustained "field of fire."  Then again, in a defensive scenario, if you are laying down a field of fire, things are pretty damn circumstantially  terrible.

Ted has tried to push me toward a Walther for a few years now, I haven't listened, sadly.   Which is probably at least partially why I have a harem of glocks that I do not love.  If the Walther trigger is superior to the Sig trigger, it is definitely worth a try.

My frames of reference for outstanding trigger are STI/SVI/Nighthawk 1911 variants, a super awesome Novak HiPower, and a few HK P7s.  If I could find a striker-fired weapon that approached any of those, I'd buy a few - as would almost every other striker-firing shooter I know of.


-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: August/21/2018 at 13:15
I've been carrying a Glock 22 for about 20 years, but not because I wanted to. They were issued to me and I was told that is what I was going to carry. As a good officer and firearms instructor I saluted and learned to love the Glock. I'm a Glock armorer for my department, and I've gone through the Gen. 2,3,4, and 5.
While I agree with most of what Rancid Coolaid said, there are some things I will disagree with. First, I don't think the Glock is as reliable as many would have us believe. Almost every malfunction you can have with any other auto pistol you can have with a Glock, and I've seen most of them. Glock knows this too; why do you think there are now 5 generations of a pistol that was declared perfect at the first generation? Many of the changes made in the following generations were to make the pistol more reliable. Second, Glocks will break, and I'm not talking about broken sights from dropping it, or some other abuse. I'm talking about parts breaking from abuse, wear, and defective parts. These are things that Glock told armorers to check for, so it's not something I discovered. Extractors break from improper loading, all springs need to be replaced regularly, and strikers need to be inspected regularly.
As for the grip angle, I was happy with the Glock until I took a high speed low drag pistol class and discovered that the trigger guard was beating the crap out of my trigger finger making it painful to fire.
There are a lot of things I don't like about the Glock, and while I have confidence in the pistol, I'd rather have a Sig P320.


-------------
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: August/21/2018 at 14:11
 I didn't say they were indestructible, I said they are reliable.

All mechanical devices have parts that wear out with use.

I hate the trigger and the guard on my Glocks.

Carry on.


-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: August/21/2018 at 14:14
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:


Ted has tried to push me toward a Walther for a few years now, I haven't listened, sadly.   Which is probably at least partially why I have a harem of glocks that I do not love.  If the Walther trigger is superior to the Sig trigger, it is definitely worth a try.

My frames of reference for outstanding trigger are STI/SVI/Nighthawk 1911 variants, a super awesome Novak HiPower, and a few HK P7s.  If I could find a striker-fired weapon that approached any of those, I'd buy a few - as would almost every other striker-firing shooter I know of.

Remember, I was also one of the ones who pushed you toward the H&K P7/PSP family (though maybe you were already well on your way toward buying one anyway and I merely helped nudge you in that direction. Or maybe I had no influence at all, IDK...but anyway, you get the point). I think you will have to agree, that recommendation didn't suck. In the interest of accuracy, the P7 family is striker fired, albeit with unusual cocking mechanics involved. 

Yes, the PPQ trigger is superior to the Sig trigger, except for the fact I prefer the feel of triggers without the drop safety tab in the center, but there has to be tradeoffs made in the pursuit of drop safety. If you recall, a year ago, it was discovered that the Sig 320 wasn't totally drop safe; it would periodically fire if it impacted the rear of the slide when dropped. So, Sig reduced the trigger mass (as opposed to using a safety tab) to reduce trigger inertia. The PPQ's pull is shorter, maybe a touch lighter pull weight, and the reset is MUCH shorter and more distinct than the Sig 320. Some think the reset is too short, in fact, at only 0.1". You have to train to avoid occasional double taps, the reset is so short. In fairness, its trigger isn't custom 1911 good nor close, but no other pistol design is either. Its better than any other polymer framed striker pistol, and in most comparisons, way better. Given the gun's lack of any external safeties and the fact it's a striker fired pistol, its trigger is damn good.

The PPQ is the same size as a Glock 19. Just like a Glock, it has a polygonal rifled barrel, the same "3 drop safeties," the same takedown method, The same "point and shoot" manual of arms, and the same mag capacity as a G19. It is a proven reliable design, having been in service for more than twice as long as the Sig P320, and it's an evolution of the P99, which has been in service for over 20 years. Despite sharing all the design virtues of Glock, it dispenses with the things people complain about Glocks. It has a much better trigger by light years. It doesn't have Glock's poor slide to frame fit, with that wide ass gap and warped dust cover. It doesn't have the Glock blockiness, with nicely radiused curves everywhere. It has much better grip ergos, or at least my hands think so. The grip has nice texturing yet isn't so aggressive to be irritating. It has a more roomy trigger guard, with undercut at the rear. It has both front and rear slide serrations. Its ambi slide release is larger and easier to manipulate, yet streamlined. It has a micro-adjustable rear sight, with the micro-adjustment inset nicely into the side of the rear sight. I don't really care that much for the stock sights, but I have Trijicon HDs on mine.

I had recommended the Walther PPQ to a friend and former co-worker of mine who, like you, has always been a huge 1911 guy. Hell, I like 1911s too, just not for carry. He started getting away from the 1911 for CC because he wanted more magazine capacity, and settled on the Springfield XD Mod2 4" 9mm. He balked at my PPQ suggestion because of bad experiences he had in the past with other Walther designs (I agreed with him on that, however, I try to judge any firearm on its own merits, not based on something else that has the same brand name). So, after work one day, I had him handle, take down, and try to the trigger on my Q. He agreed the trigger thoroughly kicked the XD's ass and it had nice build quality, but he'd already made up his mind that the PPQ just wasn't for him. Just this week, he picked up a used PPQ M1 (paddle mag release version) on a trade with a friend, and he texted me this morning on my way to work that he's become a reluctant PPQ convert after he actually shot it. He included a target in his text with a fantastic 30-round group.


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: August/21/2018 at 14:35
I had two Glock 23s for several years.  IIRC I put about 6000 rounds through one of them and about 2000 through the other.  Twice the 6000 round one the trigger froze up on me completely.  A little powder blast and some oil fixed it up, but a weird thing to happen non the less.

When I would run the guns left handed is when they would kill my trigger finger.  Right handed was not so bad for me personally.  I ran a couple 4 day pistol classes with them left handed and my finger was so freaking raw and sore. 


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: August/21/2018 at 21:22
I'm a great fan of the Sigs, on Ted's suggestions I tried the Walthers (several variants) and REALLY like them, Love the Kimber .45s, but find no reason to replace any of my Glocks with one of them.  Many rounds through my 17 and 33 and never a failure... never a reason for concern.  I bought the FN 5.7 and absolutely love it, though it is a difficult carry for me... my 33 is still my "go to" for a CCW.  The FN 5.7 is as accurate as I could wish for and one hell of a self-defense handgun... 
No problem with any of the comments in this thread... everyone's tastes/likes in handguns are personal... as most "gun things" are.  I guess that is why there are so many different brands, calibers, etc...

As the commercial says... "Glock... suits me..."


-------------
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: Scrumbag
Date Posted: August/22/2018 at 04:37
It's interesting, the first handgun I ever fired was a Glock 17. Shot it with several hours of instruction and somewhere North of 500rds through the gun. I really wasn't sure hand gun shooting was for me. I picked up a Sig P226 in 9mm and I new in less than a mag I preferred that!

Funny how some things just suit you better


-------------
Was sure I had a point when I started this post...


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: August/22/2018 at 08:04

No doubt we all agree... Glocks will always have their place in history and firearms evolution.... they started the plastic gun phase.   I've never been a fan of glocks, never pointed well to me but I have several and shot them good enough for self defense and know they serve me well as a grab and go CCW when I just need to go. I have dozens of firearms in a regular rotation of carry guns.  Kept myself up at night with worries I'd grab one and muscle memory from another gun would cause a delay in the event I needed to draw my weapon..... But I regress and normally just carry whatever mood I'm in...

 

Glocks have a purpose but so did the Makarov at one timeWink lol

 

I'm a equal opportunity gun carrier.....  its the PC thing I understand.



-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: August/22/2018 at 10:03
Exactly, Graham; well said. 

I have a lot of respect for Glock. They were very innovative and completely changed the landscape of defensive handguns forever. I have a Glock, and I like Glocks overall, despite my dislike for certain Glock design features. I think their fire control system mechanical design is genius. I don't think selecting a Glock is ever a bad choice. There's a lot to be said for the value of familiarity and confidence in a product.

As the old saying goes, "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery." That being said, competition leads to refinement. I believe in the ensuing years that other pistols have managed to "out-Glock Glocks."


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: August/22/2018 at 11:33

 Which specifi PPQ do you have ted?   They have a 45 now.... it appears.... Is yours the classic?

 



-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: urbaneruralite
Date Posted: August/22/2018 at 14:20
PPQ .45 has the economical American style safety. If you want the Euro style lever and .45 you look for a SW99.


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: August/22/2018 at 14:44
Graham, I have the PPQ "M2" ('Merican style button mag release, as opposed to the "M1" version with the paddle style mag release levers alongside the trigger guard, similar to the H&K VP series), 4" 9mm.



Mine is stock except I changed out the factory sights with Trijicon HDs, with the orange donut up front, and I changed the factory plastic guide rod with a stainless steel rod. There are no reported issues with the factory plastic rod, and many others use a plastic rod, including Glock. I just like the idea of having a SS guide rod instead of plastic. Here are the Trijicon HDs:



In this photo, you can see the microadjust mechanism in the rear sight. These are the easiest to replace sights in all of gundom. Simply press down on the spring plunger pin shown, and the sight body slides right out. No hammering with a punch or sight pusher required. Yet, the mechanism is nicely inset into the sight body so it won't move inadvertently during normal use.



I also recently bought the Q5 Match, which is a 5" barrel length competition version with replaceable dot sight mounting plates and cool looking slide cuts. It plays in the same arena as RC's Sig 320 X5, except with "only" 15 rd capacity vs the X5's 21. I have the Shield RMS mounted on mine. Since I relegated it as strictly a range toy, I did replace the factory trigger with an Apex "Thin Blue Line" trigger. Truthfully, the factory trigger was very good as-is, being the same as a standard PPQ except blue colored (?) for whatever reason. The Apex is really no "better" in terms of smoothness, pull weight, or reset, but it does remove all of the pre-travel present in the factory trigger, and it has a different feel. It's a slick gun that shoots VERY well, and to my eyes looks uber cool doing it.



I was always a huge fan of Sig classic series alloy frame pistols, and still am. I have a P229 and P239. I'm "old school" in that I had a hard time getting onboard with the "plastic fantastic" craze. I always stubbornly held to the belief that fine firearms should have a bare minimum of plastic parts, even though the practical side of me realizes that not all "plastics" are created equal and the word "plastic" carries with it an unfair stigma that often isn't valid. The PPQ series caused me to do a complete 180 on that. 

Returning back to the subject of the PPQ trigger, I feel I need to clarify what I said to RC about it being "better" than the Sig's trigger. It does have a shorter, smoother pull with a much shorter, more distinct reset. To me, that equates to being "better," but "better" means different things to different people. Some have complained it is too light and has too short a reset for a carry gun, and a valid argument could be made that even though it may be "better" in the traditional sense, it isn't necessarily better for a CC gun, where you may actually want a heavier trigger with longer travel.  


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: August/22/2018 at 15:11
 Ted, do they make a plate that fits the RMS or did you have to improvise?

My Sig has a slide cut for their Tango red dot, but I'm not sure how to go about putting an RMS on it - need to investigate.




-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: August/22/2018 at 15:46
I am going to diverge from the herd here.  

My first handgun was a Glock.  I went to the store to buy a handgun and was picking between Sig Pro, HK and Glock.  HK mag release did not work for me: gripping the gun caused the magazine to fall out.  The last Sig Pro was purchased by the guy right in front of me.  As I was deliberating, the guy behind the counter said that he has a used Glock at a discount, so I bought it.

I learned to shoot with a Glock, so the grip angle works for me.  The trigger wore in with some practice, although I replaced most of Glock triggers with Hayley Skimmer ones a couple of years ago.

I messed with the grip frames a little.  Not to change the angle, but rather to change the texture.  I replaced the sights and cut most of the slides for co-witnessed red dots.

In the end, I've got several Glocks that fit me like a glove.  They always go bang, are reasonably accurate and I've got many tens of thousand of rounds through them.

Oh, and I live in California, so all these newer guns you guys mention, I can't buy.

ILya


-------------
http://www.opticsthoughts.com - www.opticsthoughts.com
http://fb.me/DarkLordOfOptics - Facebook
https://www.instagram.com/darklordofoptics/ - Instagram


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: August/22/2018 at 16:27
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

 Ted, do they make a plate that fits the RMS or did you have to improvise?


It comes with plates for Trijicon RMR, Burris Fastfire, and Leupold Deltapoint, as well as s conventional iron sight insert as part of the kit, along with 3 mags and 3 grip back straps. The standard Shield RMS shares the same mounting footprint as Leupold Deltapoint, so I just used the Deltapoint plate.

-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: mike650
Date Posted: August/22/2018 at 16:38
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

I am going to diverge from the herd here.  

My first handgun was a Glock.  I went to the store to buy a handgun and was picking between Sig Pro, HK and Glock.  HK mag release did not work for me: gripping the gun caused the magazine to fall out.  The last Sig Pro was purchased by the guy right in front of me.  As I was deliberating, the guy behind the counter said that he has a used Glock at a discount, so I bought it.

I learned to shoot with a Glock, so the grip angle works for me.  The trigger wore in with some practice, although I replaced most of Glock triggers with Hayley Skimmer ones a couple of years ago.

I messed with the grip frames a little.  Not to change the angle, but rather to change the texture.  I replaced the sights and cut most of the slides for co-witnessed red dots.

In the end, I've got several Glocks that fit me like a glove.  They always go bang, are reasonably accurate and I've got many tens of thousand of rounds through them.

Oh, and I live in California, so all these newer guns you guys mention, I can't buy.

ILya






















Same boat, got lucky and bought a VP9 on SSE while Kali residents still could, wears Trijicon HD's, love that pistol!


-------------
Fish to Live, Live to Hunt


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: August/22/2018 at 19:18
 Leupold Deltapoint plate: that is good info!

-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: August/22/2018 at 19:27
Keep in mind that Deltapoint and Deltapoint Pro are different plates.

Shield has the same mounting pattern as Deltapoint and Jpoint.

ILya


-------------
http://www.opticsthoughts.com - www.opticsthoughts.com
http://fb.me/DarkLordOfOptics - Facebook
https://www.instagram.com/darklordofoptics/ - Instagram


Posted By: urbaneruralite
Date Posted: August/23/2018 at 12:58
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Keep in mind that Deltapoint and Deltapoint Pro are different plates.

Shield has the same mounting pattern as Deltapoint and Jpoint.

ILya

What is the Pro footprint? Same as Fastfire?


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: August/23/2018 at 13:00
Originally posted by urbaneruralite urbaneruralite wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Keep in mind that Deltapoint and Deltapoint Pro are different plates.

Shield has the same mounting pattern as Deltapoint and Jpoint.

ILya

What is the Pro footprint? Same as Fastfire?

I do not think Deltapoint Pro shares footprint with anything else out there.

The location of the screws seems the same as Deltapoint, but locating posts are larger in diameter and sight body is different in length and width.

ILya


-------------
http://www.opticsthoughts.com - www.opticsthoughts.com
http://fb.me/DarkLordOfOptics - Facebook
https://www.instagram.com/darklordofoptics/ - Instagram


Posted By: urbaneruralite
Date Posted: August/23/2018 at 13:01
There's a SW99 .45 on that auction site right now. It has box 'n' doc.s. Complete examples don't show up often. 


Posted By: GiantGreg
Date Posted: August/23/2018 at 16:11

 I dont know if the FiveX has similar trigger to the regular 320, but 320 is not drop safe. You can send it to sig and have them fix it with a glock safety style trigger.
as far as having big hands I'm 6'9. BIG HANDS. most comfortable gun and most I enjoy shooting is 92. thats good grip size for my hands.

I've owned and carryed alot, but what I always go back to is my Glock 26 for.  Its just practical.



Posted By: Peddler
Date Posted: August/23/2018 at 17:30
Originally posted by GiantGreg GiantGreg wrote:


I dont know if the FiveX has similar trigger to the regular 320, but 320 is not drop safe. You can send it to sig and have them fix it with a glock safety style trigger.
as far as having big hands I'm 6'9. BIG HANDS. most comfortable gun and most I enjoy shooting is 92. thats good grip size for my hands.

I've owned and carryed alot, but what I always go back to is my Glock 26 for.  Its just practical.



Greg you didn’t finish, 6’9” , how many lbs?

-------------
When you are dead, you don't know you are dead.It is difficult only for others.

It is the same when you are stupid.


Posted By: Sparky
Date Posted: August/23/2018 at 19:02
Originally posted by GiantGreg GiantGreg wrote:

 I dont know if the FiveX has similar trigger to the regular 320, but 320 is not drop safe. You can send it to sig and have them fix it with a glock safety style trigger.

The X5 didn't have the drop issues the regular 320s did. The trigger has less mass and therefore didn't need to be changed. Omaha Outdoors the people who first discovered the drop issue tested the X5 and couldn't get it to fire.

The upgraded 320s do not have a "Glock" style safety trigger. The new trigger is much thinner among other changes.



Posted By: Scrumbag
Date Posted: August/24/2018 at 04:58
Even Mr Bond says...




-------------
Was sure I had a point when I started this post...


Posted By: GiantGreg
Date Posted: August/24/2018 at 09:55
Originally posted by Peddler Peddler wrote:

Originally posted by GiantGreg GiantGreg wrote:


I dont know if the FiveX has similar trigger to the regular 320, but 320 is not drop safe. You can send it to sig and have them fix it with a glock safety style trigger.
as far as having big hands I'm 6'9. BIG HANDS. most comfortable gun and most I enjoy shooting is 92. thats good grip size for my hands.

I've owned and carryed alot, but what I always go back to is my Glock 26 for.  Its just practical.



Greg you didn’t finish, 6’9” , how many lbs?

Usually im between 220-240 depending on time of year and if I've pooped or not.



Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: August/24/2018 at 13:08
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_SFZaZ8v8g

This guy kinda hit the nail on the head, but I could say so much more, or I have all ready.


-------------
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: August/24/2018 at 13:37
That's just blasphemy...

Now, get your prayer rug out and repeat after me: "Thou shalt have no handgun but Glock and Gaston is his prophet" 

ILya


-------------
http://www.opticsthoughts.com - www.opticsthoughts.com
http://fb.me/DarkLordOfOptics - Facebook
https://www.instagram.com/darklordofoptics/ - Instagram


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: August/24/2018 at 15:28
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

That's just blasphemy...

Now, get your prayer rug out and repeat after me: "Thou shalt have no handgun but Glock and Gaston is his prophet" 

ILya













Nope, sorry, I'm a Smith and Wessonite.
I do believe a M&P has a cylinder though.


-------------
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: August/24/2018 at 15:46
Before the days of the wonder nines, a 4 inch Model 19 or 66 with a speed loader or two loaded with 125gr, JHP .357 Magnums was all you needed. Maybe a Walther PPK/S with an extra mag or two for a backup.
Then the wonder nines became popular, but all I could do was increase the number of speed loaders to four, and keep a shotgun in the car.


-------------
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: Peddler
Date Posted: August/24/2018 at 15:51
Originally posted by GiantGreg GiantGreg wrote:

Originally posted by Peddler Peddler wrote:

Originally posted by GiantGreg GiantGreg wrote:


I dont know if the FiveX has similar trigger to the regular 320, but 320 is not drop safe. You can send it to sig and have them fix it with a glock safety style trigger.
as far as having big hands I'm 6'9. BIG HANDS. most comfortable gun and most I enjoy shooting is 92. thats good grip size for my hands.

I've owned and carryed alot, but what I always go back to is my Glock 26 for.  Its just practical.



Greg you didn’t finish, 6’9” , how many lbs?

Usually im between 220-240 depending on time of year and if I've pooped or not.



😂👍💥..,,,

-------------
When you are dead, you don't know you are dead.It is difficult only for others.

It is the same when you are stupid.


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: August/24/2018 at 22:11
I'm patiently waiting for Milt Sparks to make a holster for my HK 45.


-------------

"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: August/25/2018 at 10:49
Will he do a HK45 holster?

If so, yea, I am getting in line.

-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: Scrumbag
Date Posted: August/25/2018 at 11:38
I MISS OWNING HANDGUNS SO FREAKIN' MUCH!!!!


-------------
Was sure I had a point when I started this post...


Posted By: Longhunter
Date Posted: August/25/2018 at 22:38
Glocks tend to have love/hate relationships with their owners.
I'll cast my vote with Rancid Coolaid and BeltFed.

Glock pistols did set higher standards for capacity, reliability, and durability. 
They also established new lows for ugliness, bad triggers, and awkward grips.
koshkin, you are indeed fortunate.  You may be one of the few people the Glock grip actually fits!
The "Glock Perfection" mantra  is simply self-adulation.

Trigger -  Glock is responsible for the little  "thingy" in the middle of many of today's pistol triggers. I loathe the damnable things.  The Glock factory trigger causes a blister (and then a cut) on my trigger finger.  In addition, it gives a false sense of contact, being further forward than the real trigger.  Taking up the initial slack feels like the trigger on an 1891 Argentine Mauser. Unfortunately, things go downhill from there.  There's an additional long take-up instead of a short, sharp click.  Most of the cap pistols I played with as a kid had better triggers than the Glock.   

Grip - The Glock grip is too big and awkward, for no reason.  It causes the gun to point unnaturally high for most shooters.  Hand any new shooter a Glock 19, after he or she has tried several other pistols, and they will immediately tell you that!  If Jeff Cooper hadn't popularized the two-handed grip, the Glock would have made it necessary.  It is proof positive that humans can adapt to almost anything.  Glock did finally get rid of the finger grooves, which surely must have fit at least one person (but not my medium-sized hands).      

I've owned the Glock 23 in Gen 1, 2, and 3 versions.
The Gen 3 was improved enough to warrant some custom work.
I had Cylinder and Slide do a grip reduction (with stippling).  They did a great job.
This changed the grip angle back to normal (i.e., the same as most other pistols).
The pistol is now a natural pointer, which I consider critical for any self-defense gun.

I replaced the trigger with a considerably better after-market trigger.
It is a distinct improvement, but still far from perfect. 
I also added a set of TruGlo night sights.

My Glock 23  now works as carry gun.
Also, as a "wake up in the middle of the night" gun with night sights and plenty of rounds in case there's more than one intruder.  (Bad guys often travel in twos and threes.)

So yes, I own and use a Glock.
It is unlikely that it will ever be one of my favorites, but it does do certain things very well.
        

 


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: August/27/2018 at 08:05

 Got to handle a 320 compact over the weekend at the LGS.... very nice trigger..... debating now if I want to pick up the compact or get the x-carry.......  Not sure I like the full size grip on the x carry so will probably go compact but I do like the gun feel.   They did not have a PPQ..... still want to handle one

 



-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: August/27/2018 at 09:37
 Isn't the Carry just 0.2" longer?  (I have not held/shot the Carry or Compact.)

-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: August/27/2018 at 10:38

 The X carry is like the glock 19X.... full size frame, compact slide   17rd capacity vs the compact 15rd capacity.    Not sure of the exact dimensions... still researching a bit.  I like the added benefits of the x carry but can also make a compact have those items I desire (sights, flat trigger) for cheaper than the difference between the 2 but wouldn't have the ability t add the optic or have the slide cuts

Comparison is the X Carry is the 19X and the Compact is the 19

 

I did like the trigger a whole lot though.



-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: August/27/2018 at 10:55
 So X-Carry is .2" taller than the compact but same size as the standard Carry model and the X-Carry is .2" longer overall as well.   Don't think i'd have issues carrying it over the other so may just find an x carry

-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: August/27/2018 at 10:56
Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

I'm patiently waiting for Milt Sparks to make a holster for my HK 45.
 







If there is one thing that bugs me (there are many, now that I think about it, but...), it is when people ask a question to which they can easily find the answer without my input.  I did that, sorry.

I just checked TopGunSupply (not a competitor with SWFA, I think.  If it is, apologies, redact that) and they have VM2s for HK45 as well as HK 320 Carry, which I shall be purchasing ricky tick!

As for frame length, the Carry is slightly longer and holds 2 more rounds than the Compact.  As I have large hands, and like having 2 more rounds on tap, I shall be purchasing Carry conversion kit for my existing Xfive - which I like very much.  More to follow.

Glocks for sale soon, I am guessing!


-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: August/28/2018 at 08:57
 Well after thinking about all the options I went ahead and got a x-carry on the way.... distributor was trying to move 3 and my buddy at the LGS got them all 3 for a steal so I'm not paying much more than the carry version plus night sights would have cost me.  To arrive tomorrow. 

-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: August/28/2018 at 14:55
 And all the X-carry's that were ordered arrived as just X5s...... no carrys....

-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: Lockjaw
Date Posted: August/28/2018 at 14:58
I am a glock fan, although not a fan of the 23 or smaller versions of 40 cal. While I loved my 23 for a carry gun, I didn't like shooting it alot at the range. It tended to bite my trigger finger on the bottom of the guard. 

I traded it for a SW99 in the same caliber, a gun I truly did like, and thought the extra weight would tame the sharp recoil of the 40. NOPE! But it was a great gun. 

Years ago, I got a demo Gen 3 G17. The only thing I haven't changed on it is a trigger. I got factory nite sites when they had glock days at a local store for 50 bucks installed. I usually take it deer hunting, or ATV riding, although if its dusty, I sometimes take my SW Sigma instead. It's sort of blocky, but I did the trigger mod on it, which helped it immensely. 

Here is what I truly love about a Glock, besides the fact its sort of like an AR15, you can do about anything with it. As a carry platform, you can go G17, 19 and 26, and the mags from the 17 and 19 will work in the 26. Magpul makes a nice G17 mag too. And then there is a 33 round one from Glock. That means on any given day, you could conceal a G17 or 19, and have a 26 as your bug, and only need mags from the bigger gun. 

During the Obomination years, I changed alot of my gun stuff, to make sure I had common calibers. That means 9mm, 38/357 and 45. You other guys can call me crazy if you want, but..... I don't think a 9mm kills less than a 40, or 357 sig, or any other wonderzoot caliber. Truth be told if I really wanted to make sure I killed someone, I would shoot a 357 with a 125gr JHP. When it was tracked, that was the supreme most effective one shot stopper out there. Bullet technology has improved since then, so I am sure the gap has closed. 

Is my glock as beautiful as my Kimber? Heck no. Is it as accurate? Heck no. Does it cycle as smoothly? NOPE. Does the trigger break as nice? Nope. 

But you know what? I don't like to carry my kimber when I go dinking around in the woods. If I was going to scratch up a gun, I would rather scratch up my glock, or for that matter, my SW Sigma. The Kimber stays in the safe and goes with me to the range every once in a while. I know its shame that's the life it leads, but.... hey... 


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: August/29/2018 at 10:56
Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

 And all the X-carry's that were ordered arrived as just X5s...... no carrys....
Anyone looking for an P320 X5 PM me.  Shop is going to run a special to move them.

-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: coyote95
Date Posted: August/29/2018 at 15:54
I’m not a hater, g19 gen5 ameriglo on it’s way. ;-)

-------------
"Life is like riding a bicycle . To keep balance you must keep moving" Albert Einstein


Posted By: urbaneruralite
Date Posted: August/29/2018 at 16:38
I probably should have admitted to carrying a pistol. A Kel-Tec PMR30 is my yard work, hunt club maintenance, coon hunting, etc. gun. It gets bug spray and sweat and fertilizer all over it. Basically, I tote it when I'll wear a flimsy belt or will beat on whatever I take.

The only real complaint is the heel mag release. It'll let the mag free when riding in a vehicle sometimes.


Posted By: Scrumbag
Date Posted: August/30/2018 at 03:12
Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

That's just blasphemy...

Now, get your prayer rug out and repeat after me: "Thou shalt have no handgun but Glock and Gaston is his prophet" 

ILya



Nope, sorry, I'm a Smith and Wessonite.
I do believe a M&P has a cylinder though.

Is that like Mennonite? Raised any barns or shooting ranges lately? I thought Ed was the one from Pennsylvania?

Scrummy



-------------
Was sure I had a point when I started this post...


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: August/30/2018 at 07:17
lol......   no Ed was outcast! 

-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: August/30/2018 at 10:07
Originally posted by Scrumbag Scrumbag wrote:

Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

That's just blasphemy...

Now, get your prayer rug out and repeat after me: "Thou shalt have no handgun but Glock and Gaston is his prophet" 

ILya



Nope, sorry, I'm a Smith and Wessonite.
I do believe a M&P has a cylinder though.

Is that like Mennonite? Raised any barns or shooting ranges lately? I thought Ed was the one from Pennsylvania?

Scrummy
































Don't ever accuse me of being from Pennsylvania.
A Smith & Wessonite is form a religion that would shove the muzzle of his S&W 629 in the ear of a badass thug and recite a prophecy like this "Don't move. I seldom miss from this distance".


-------------
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: Lockjaw
Date Posted: August/30/2018 at 13:10
Oh and I forgot one other thing. I did not and do not want a gun I have to transition from double to single action. 




Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: August/30/2018 at 15:10
 Okay, it is official, I am out of the Glock market, and here are my initial thoughts on the M17.

1.  It comes with 2 mags, kinda chincy, but the 21-rounders from the Xfive work just fine.
2.  The trigger is not as crisp or light, but break pretty clean for the operating system.
3.  The rear sight is in no way adjustable, it is a piece of the plate that accommodates their red dot.
4.  Front sight is not bad, tritium, and has a white outer dot, which is nice as the rears don't have the white.
5.  For a company known for NOT doing external safeties, they got this one very right.  With a solid grip, it sits right where I want it to, right thumb rest and natural feel to taking it off safe.  It is also quite comfortable and not stupid big.  
6.  Again on the safety, it can remain on while the slide is run, which is very odd and very safe, I like that feature allot.  Having learned on 1911s, it is a welcome improvement on an already awesome design.
7.  It has the curved trigger, that needs to be changed to the flat, if possible.
8.  It fits fine in a holster made for a Xfive.
9.  The slide release is recessed and small, both of which I like - since I sometimes ride slide releases and have the resultant gun-in-battery-over-an-empty-chamber situation, which is fine on the 1-way range, but not the 2-way range.
10.  I hate the color, but like the gun.  If it bugs me too much, I'll rattle-can some variation onto it, that gets me lots of respect on the range and with the paintball crowd - which is why I carry guns in the first place.

All in all, it is a Glock-killing design for me: trigger is much improved, no trigger guard bite, and grip angle is right, the gun indexes well.  It does have a bit more barrel flip on hot rounds, but a full grip and a good surface to place my left thumb help immensely with that.

More to follow, like an actual range report.




-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: Scrumbag
Date Posted: August/30/2018 at 15:45
Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

Originally posted by Scrumbag Scrumbag wrote:

Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

That's just blasphemy...

Now, get your prayer rug out and repeat after me: "Thou shalt have no handgun but Glock and Gaston is his prophet" 

ILya



Nope, sorry, I'm a Smith and Wessonite.
I do believe a M&P has a cylinder though.

Is that like Mennonite? Raised any barns or shooting ranges lately? I thought Ed was the one from Pennsylvania?

Scrummy



Don't ever accuse me of being from Pennsylvania.
A Smith & Wessonite is form a religion that would shove the muzzle of his S&W 629 in the ear of a badass thug and recite a prophecy like this "Don't move. I seldom miss from this distance".


No? Too far north? Is Pennsylvania North of the Mason Dixon?

Sounds a reasonable philosophy on aim small, miss small. I miss my S&W-17 :(


-------------
Was sure I had a point when I started this post...


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: August/31/2018 at 10:07
RC, I'm jealous. I've wanted a M17 since I heard they came with a manual safety.

I checked the Sig site and the M17 comes in black and coyote. Though I'm not known for being picky about colors, I may try to hold out for the black M17.

Also, Grey Guns has a flat replacement trigger, and it may even lighten the trigger some.


-------------
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: August/31/2018 at 10:25
 Yea, black wasn't an option for me, it was "take this or get nothing."

With an external safety, I am happy to go a bit lighter on the trigger.

This gun will see actual use, so it will be stress tested early.


-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: August/31/2018 at 10:32
Scrummy, Pennsylvania is north of the Mason Dixon.

Back in 1960, there was a big argument between the muzzle loading long rifle communities and clubs as to rather the muzzle loading long rifle should be called a Kentucky long rifle or a Pennsylvania long rifle. Kind of a silly argument since the stocks on a Kentucky rifle is different from a Pennsylvania rifle, and the Kentucky stock is simpler and better fitting than the Pennsylvania stock. But it gave the clubs of the Kentucky and Pennsylvania long riflemen an excuse to have match to determine rather the long rile was going to be called a Kentucky or Pennsylvania long rifle. Kind of a dumb thing for the Pennsylvania boys to do since the Kentucky long riflemen, though modest, had never been beat by any other club or group. Well the match was held, the Kentucky boys won, and the muzzle loading long rifle has since been known generically as the Kentucky Long Rifle no matter what style it is.
I happen to know and have known a few of the members of the Kentucky Long Riflemen who shot in that match. They were all exceptional men and characters.



-------------
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: August/31/2018 at 10:34

 Sig offers a flat bar as well.

 

https://www.sigsauer.com/store/p320-flat-trigger.html - https://www.sigsauer.com/store/p320-flat-trigger.html



-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: August/31/2018 at 10:58
It'll be interesting to see the differences between the fire control units (FCU) for the X5 and the M17. I can drop the X5 FCU in my P320C grip module that has a manual safety (like a M18 clone), but not the other way around without cutting a place for the safety in the X5 grip module.
There is a faint outline on the X5 grip module where that cutout would be for the manual safety.
I'm just wondering if the Grey Guns trigger kit for the standard P320/X5 could fit the M17 FCU; giving you a lighter trigger with shorter take up and reset, and either a curved or flat trigger.


-------------
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: August/31/2018 at 11:32
 That is exactly what I am trying to get from them.

-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: August/31/2018 at 12:20
https://grayguns.com/

I don't think there is a conflict here, but if there is, mods...................


-------------
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: August/31/2018 at 12:46
 I found their stuff, they specify the "X" series, but nothing specifically about the M guns.

When I get an answer, I'll let you know.


-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: August/31/2018 at 14:07
!0-4

-------------
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: Scrumbag
Date Posted: August/31/2018 at 16:06
Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

Scrummy, Pennsylvania is north of the Mason Dixon.

Back in 1960, there was a big argument between the muzzle loading long rifle communities and clubs as to rather the muzzle loading long rifle should be called a Kentucky long rifle or a Pennsylvania long rifle. Kind of a silly argument since the stocks on a Kentucky rifle is different from a Pennsylvania rifle, and the Kentucky stock is simpler and better fitting than the Pennsylvania stock. But it gave the clubs of the Kentucky and Pennsylvania long riflemen an excuse to have match to determine rather the long rile was going to be called a Kentucky or Pennsylvania long rifle. Kind of a dumb thing for the Pennsylvania boys to do since the Kentucky long riflemen, though modest, had never been beat by any other club or group. Well the match was held, the Kentucky boys won, and the muzzle loading long rifle has since been known generically as the Kentucky Long Rifle no matter what style it is.
I happen to know and have known a few of the members of the Kentucky Long Riflemen who shot in that match. They were all exceptional men and characters.



Good to know BF, even a blasted Brit like myself has heard of the Kentucky Long Rifle ;)


-------------
Was sure I had a point when I started this post...


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: September/04/2018 at 10:03

 I picked up my X-Carry Friday.  First impressions are awesome.   3 17rd mags, night sights, smooth trigger, great feel and points naturally. Love how high you can grip it, really melts to your hand and points and aims great.   Trigger is awesome.  No trouble concealing with a t-shirt and kydex IWB holster I ordered.  

Shot about 300 rounds of FMJ Winchester Saturday with no FTFs, FTE, or any hiccups.  Anther 100 rounds of speer gold dots when through it sunday with same results.  Groups great and I'm very comfortable with it.  

A bit more time with it and I'll be using it as the primary carry weapon I think.    The x ray sights are great.  Very easy to pick up in all light conditions.  

This gun is a glock killer if you compare them side by side. (sold my 34 Sunday afternoon after shooting this gun.  Think I will pick up a x5 conversion kit or just another whole gun)

Going to do some more drills soon and take photos of the results. 

If you haven't tried a Sig P320, do so.



-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: September/04/2018 at 11:10
 Glad you like it.

There is definitely much to like about it.  If you learned on a 1911 or 92, the grip angle is great.  I point a 1911 and the Sig 320 well, and an HK P7 perfectly.  When it comes to natural indexing for me, that is the angle that works by pure muscle memory.

Metal mags and metal sights right out of the box, also very good things in my opinion.



-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: September/05/2018 at 09:27
I informed Kenny that the M17s have been released, and I want one. He told me they are already on the way because I'm not the only idiot that wants one.

I agree with RC about the grip and natural indexing and pointing of the Sig when compared to the 1911, and 92, and I will also add the S&W 59 series with an edge to the Sig.


-------------
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: September/05/2018 at 09:45
 For those interested, grayguns emailed me saying the "X" triggers will work in the "M" guns.

-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: September/05/2018 at 09:57
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

 For those interested, grayguns emailed me saying the "X" triggers will work in the "M" guns.

WOO HOO!


-------------
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: October/01/2018 at 09:01
 Another quick update.

The M17 has been on the range a few times and has yet to experience any manner of failure.  I really, really like the gun.  

I continue to be a fan of the Xfive, it is one of - if not "the" mildest shooting 9mm handguns I have ever shot.  My follow-up shots are quick and accurate, and the mass - with a full mag - is simply fantastic, it is weight exactly where weight should be.

One note on the M17 finish, it ain't durable.  At all!  After some not-demanding holster work, the finish is gone off the front slants just aft of the muzzle.  I said before I didn't love the finish, I guess I need not worry, it doesn't look to be a long-term thing.

On the safety, I have now, a time or 2, run the slide and pulled - but got no "click" because the safety was on.  I am more ingrained to the "run the slide and squeeze" action than I knew.  The slide operating with the safety on is indeed a safe feature, but it does come as a slight change in weapon operation.

In the end, I am done with Glocks, all for sale.  I am moving in 2 weeks and will establish a complete list, everything must go.

More to follow.


-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: October/01/2018 at 11:02
For the most part, I like the M17. However I'm not thrilled with the trigger on the pistol I fired; which is odd since the P320C I fired was quite nice, and they basically the same pistol except for grip and barrel length. The M17 is heavier and gritty compared to the P320C which is comparable to the X5 I shoot. Maybe it will get better with use and some smoothing up, but right now it bites my trigger finger as bad as a Glock. The M17 is begging for either a fire control unit swap or a Grey Guns flat faced trigger kit. Other than the trigger, the pistol points well, is easy to operate, and hits where it's aimed at 25yds..
I think more shooting is required.


-------------
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: October/01/2018 at 11:17
 Mine is getting a flat face trigger, I don't get bite on the current curved setup, but break the flat face better.  And yes, the M will smooth a bit with use.

-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: October/03/2018 at 09:16
 I ended up picking up the x-five to match my x-carry.   haven't shot it yet but hope to this weekend..

-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: October/03/2018 at 09:38
I still like the V-TAC, and may still pick one up, or at least a X grip.
The P320 series is easy to modify, mix and match to fit your needs.


-------------
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: October/03/2018 at 09:50
Hey RC, do you have a holster for your M17 yet, and what did you get if you do?


-------------
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: October/03/2018 at 14:52
 I have a Serpa that works fine, but isn't concealment.  The gun fits in a leather IWB for something I have - maybe a P30 or an HK45.  It fit, but it did rub off the finish in spots.

I'll probably get a Kramer or Alessi for it, I have several of both for various guns and they are my favorites - other than a Milt Sparks Executive for 1911s.


-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: October/03/2018 at 15:27
 RC.... do you have a red dot on that X-Five?  if so, where'd you get plate?  Thinking to set mine up with a red dot

-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: October/03/2018 at 15:52
 No dot, irons for now.

-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: October/03/2018 at 15:59

 10-4..... would like to put a shield on it if possible being that's the one everyone here recommend right now.... but finding a plate for that my be an issues.   Found it for the sig romeo.....

 



-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: October/03/2018 at 16:30
 figured out a romeo 1 will mount right on with no plate... going to try that.

-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: October/04/2018 at 14:23
 Milt Sparks Executive Companion in the works for the M17, here in 12-18 weeks.

-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: October/04/2018 at 20:18
Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

 10-4..... would like to put a shield on it if possible being that's the one everyone here recommend right now.... but finding a plate for that my be an issues.   Found it for the sig romeo.....

 


The standard width Shield RMS has the same mounting dimensions as a Leupold Deltapoint, so a plate that works with the Deltapoint will also work with the Shield RMS.


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: October/05/2018 at 09:21
Toying with the idea of getting a full size P320 X grip module, cutting out the opening for the M17's safety, and dropping the M17 FCU and slide group in the X grip module. I swapped some parts around between a M17 and an X5 to see if it is feasible, and it is.
I really liked the flat trigger in the M17 grip module. Waiting on Grey Guns to put out some trigger kits.


-------------
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: October/05/2018 at 09:49
 midway had some flat trigger kits for the 320 last time I checked.... so did sig directly. 

-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: October/05/2018 at 09:51
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

 10-4..... would like to put a shield on it if possible being that's the one everyone here recommend right now.... but finding a plate for that my be an issues.   Found it for the sig romeo.....

 


The standard width Shield RMS has the same mounting dimensions as a Leupold Deltapoint, so a plate that works with the Deltapoint will also work with the Shield RMS.

 

Thanks if the Romeo doesn't fill the expectations I'll pick up the Shield and a deltapoint plate.... found one for it.



-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: October/08/2018 at 08:44
 Got a bit of time Sunday to fire 2 mags through the X five Sunday.   Follow up shots are scary fast and accurate.  Trigger is not as nice as the x carry but figure with use it will smooth out like the x carry did.  Can't wait to see what it handles like with the Romeo on it.... should be loads of fun.   Did run a mag through the carry as well just to keep muscle member fresh from holster to target.... gosh I love that gun..... I own 2 glocks now... both were gifts and can't sell them..... both have been cleaned and put up for indefinite storage most likely.

-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: October/09/2018 at 10:47

 Looks like SWFA has some in stock for those looking for the M17 -

https://swfa.com/sig-sauer-p320-m17-full-size-manual-safety-9mm-4-7.html - https://swfa.com/sig-sauer-p320-m17-full-size-manual-safety-9mm-4-7.html



-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: October/10/2018 at 08:15

 well got my X5 set up close to what I think i'll like, no trigger time after mounting Romeo1 but hope to this weekend.



-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: October/10/2018 at 09:28
Nice looking setup G.
Since I'll be using a Rock Island 1911A2 to compete with this year, I'll be modifying the X5 and M17 for competition and carry. Lots of ideas for both.


-------------
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: October/10/2018 at 11:07

the TLR may end up on the X carry if I can find a good holster for the match and use for carry



-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: October/10/2018 at 11:47
I use a Red Hill Tactical for competition.

https://www.redhilltactical.com/Sig-Parts-and-Holsters_c_1.html


-------------
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: October/10/2018 at 12:00
I see Comp Tac no longer list a holster for the P320 series, which is odd. I know a guy who uses a Comp Tac for his X5 and P320.

Blade Tech doesn't list a holster for the X5 or the M17, and I know the full size P320 holster doesn't fit either one.


-------------
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: October/10/2018 at 12:26
 I'm finding the X carry doesn't fit all 320 carry holsters. found a few though.

-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: Scrumbag
Date Posted: October/10/2018 at 13:59
G, nice looking set up! Just put a "Little" reflex type sight on my Benelli (Burris Fastfire III, 3MOA Dot) with a SpeedBead.

Happy shooting buddy!


-------------
Was sure I had a point when I started this post...


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: October/10/2018 at 19:09
Let me know on the red dot, that would be simplest for me, probably.

Or I need to find a plate for an RMS

-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: February/14/2019 at 09:53
As a shooter, I hate Glocks. As an armorer, I love Glocks.
As a shooter, I like the Sig P320 series. As an armorer, I hate the Sig P320 series.
The Sig fire control unit (FCU) is difficult to disassemble and reassemble and needs several tools, 2 right hands, and 2 left hands with 20 fingers. The Glock only needs 1 tool; 3 if your changing the magazine release, and I can get by with 8 fingers.
A few months ago I installed a Grey Guns trigger kit in a X5. It took me 2 hours. It was a big improvement in the trigger, and I'm glad I did it, but I could have done 4 Glocks in the same amount of time, and had lunch too.
I tried to install the same Grey Guns kit in a Sig M17 with the manual safety last night. After 3 and a half hours, I finally got it back together, and it didn't work. By the way, Grey Guns says the kit will work in the M17.
I don't know how the U.S. Army expects to train armorers to support the M17, especially compared to the Glock's ease of support.


-------------
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: February/14/2019 at 10:29
I still like the Sigs, and still hate the Glocks. And I pay someone else with more proficiency and knowledge to work on my guns - so the issues you outline are my smith's issues, not mine.

My Milt Sparks should be here shortly. I have high hopes.

-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: February/14/2019 at 10:30

I have disassembled mine for cleaning but never had any issues.  but I never fully disassemble the FCU either... just spray it out and oil it.... basic cleaning isn't that hard on it and i'd bet most folks would never disassemble to the point you did BF..... Yes Glocks are easy and a youtuber can become an armor for glock quick.... but sometimes I think its best if not everyone can tinker with FCU's in anything....



-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln



Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd. - https://www.webwiz.net