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If you can't shoot... don't hunt

Printed From: OpticsTalk by SWFA, Inc.
Category: Hunting, Fishing & General Outdoors
Forum Name: General Hunting
Forum Description: Techniques, tips, stories, general discussion, etc.
URL: http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=45363
Printed Date: January/20/2019 at 04:41


Topic: If you can't shoot... don't hunt
Posted By: Kickboxer
Subject: If you can't shoot... don't hunt
Date Posted: January/07/2019 at 22:21
I've been feeding the deer on my property for about 19 years.  Last night one of the "regulars" (he's been around for a couple of years) showed up... he has a hole in his right hip, limping, actually holding the right hoof off the ground most of the time.  He showed up again tonight.  
I am now torn as to whether I should just put him out of his misery...  he eats well, but is obviously in great pain.
A CLEAR sign of a "hunter" who can't shoot and can't hunt... fairly common in this area.  I've never seen a "group" so proud of deer shot who "got away".  Problem is, they mostly don't get away, they just go off and die.  And proud of "I must have walked a couple hundred yards... never did find him".  I've heard it many times since moving here in 1998.  It is depressing to see such obvious signs of uncaring attitude by so many.  I had one guy, a few years ago, tell me "there's more deer out there, what's the big deal?"
You can't fix stupid.


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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living



Replies:
Posted By: 8shots
Date Posted: January/08/2019 at 00:34
The bunny huggers love these guys...helps their cause no end.


Posted By: 8shots
Date Posted: January/08/2019 at 00:36
A tough call on putting him down. These animals show a remarkable ability to recover. As long as he is eating I would leave him alone.


Posted By: Dogger
Date Posted: January/08/2019 at 04:43
What 8 shots said. Keep monitoring him to see if he worsens.  Maybe put down the "hunter" if you get the chance?  Sometimes $hit does happen though, a twig you didn't see etc. In 50 years of deer hunting I have wounded an animal that I couldn't recover. The difference though is that I feel awful, it is not something any humane person would brag about.

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God save the Empire!


Posted By: Bigdaddy0381
Date Posted: January/08/2019 at 06:30
solve the problem.

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P&Z Firearms , Pro gun cleanings and gun repair and wood refinishing.

Ecclesiastes 10:2


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: January/08/2019 at 09:29
I shot a buck once that took me 3 days to find. I suspended my hunting until I found him. Of course when I did, the only thing I could claim was the antlers, because he had already swelled up. My hunting was over for the season. I had fired 6 rounds of 10mm at that deer and put all 6 in vital areas. He just ran a long way and died on a hillside, and slide down the hill over a bank where I couldn't see him. I had tracked him right to where his trail ended. I just couldn't see where he slid down the hill.
I hated losing that deer.


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Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: tahqua
Date Posted: January/08/2019 at 09:57
That is frustrating, Dan. That is what makes the difference between a hunter and someone that shoots at animals.
I like 8shots advice.


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Doug


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: January/09/2019 at 20:23
Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

That is frustrating, Dan. That is what makes the difference between a hunter and someone that shoots at animals.
I like 8shots advice.

Good advice, guys.  He is still "kicking"... still carrying that leg, though.  He actually seems to be doing better. 


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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: Son of Ed
Date Posted: January/09/2019 at 20:58
I quit hunting with farm folks who were doing "deer drives" in Pennsylvania when I was 14 years old for this very reason.....they shoot up the sky at some deer that runs away and never bother to check if they hit the deer or anybody else....that may have been still hunting 100 yards away on their own property....








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Visit the Ed Show


Posted By: Son of Ed
Date Posted: January/10/2019 at 17:53
I don't even like to go to Public Shooting Ranges because I don't like being around OTHER people who are handling guns......

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Visit the Ed Show


Posted By: tahqua
Date Posted: January/10/2019 at 18:08
Good to see Dan

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Doug


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: January/11/2019 at 08:30
The buck appears to be recovering.  Last night he was actually putting weight on the injured leg, painfully... you could realistically see him flinch sometimes when he put weight on it.  But does not appear that the bullet hit anything vital.  I got a fairly close look at the hole with a 10 power Nikon binocular and the hole is pretty small... I doubt 5.56/.223... probably .22, probably shot off the highway.  He has been "nocturnal" for a couple of years, which is what makes me believe it was an attempted poaching off the main road with a gun that would not be heard very far.  He's alert and active, seems to be healing.

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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: January/11/2019 at 09:44
Good for him.
He'll be much more wary now.


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Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: Scrumbag
Date Posted: January/14/2019 at 02:26
What is it with these poachers? The question sure revolves around fornication, travel and their legitimacy...

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Was sure I had a point when I started this post...


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: January/14/2019 at 07:15
Originally posted by Scrumbag Scrumbag wrote:

What is it with these poachers? The question sure revolves around fornication, travel and their legitimacy...
It's a way of life with some of the people here.  Rather than being a stigma, it is bandied about and discussed as a "badge of honor".  Some of them either don't hunt during hunting season (only in the spring/summer) or only hunt at night off the roadsides.  There are insufficient game wardens... I've lived here over 20 years and only seen one in this area one time.  I called the game warden once about some guys who were hunting illegally on my land... was told "if we can get around to it, we'll check it out", no one ever showed up.  I took care of it.  They have not been back.  However, the roads are still "open".  


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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: mike650
Date Posted: January/14/2019 at 07:30
Don’t get me started on F’ing poachers.

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Fish to Live, Live to Hunt


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: January/14/2019 at 09:55
To me, a poacher is no different than a serial killer...

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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: January/14/2019 at 10:59
At my work Christmas party a couple of the gals from one of the other office was sitting by my wife and I.  Their husbands an i were talking guns and hunting.  The one said he was wanting to buy a 28 nosler so he could shoot an elk at 1000+ yards.  I mentioned it will be a barrel burner so be ready to buy a few barrels as you practice to get good enough to shoot elk at that distance.  He laughed at me, and said I will only need to shoot a few shots to sight it in a then a few shots per year to hunt with.  I will never burn out a barrel.  I said how will you learn the data and learn to read the wind to make a shot like that.  He said it will be easy with that gun.  I will just buy a good bdc scope and wing it.  Confused   

I then asked him if he had any experience shooting long range.  He said not really, but with a caliber like that it makes it easy.  I just shoot my head and said it won't be as easy as you think.  You really should spend some time and money practicing before taking a shot like that.

Ultimately I don't think he cared though.  Sadly we have lots of hunters who think long shots are the way to go these days.  They think it is easy. 


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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: January/14/2019 at 11:21
 The good news with those hunters is often 2-fold:

1.  They clean miss animals more than they hit them.
2.  They sell slightly used guns at significant markdowns, for those interested.

I seldom go to public ranges any more, and never hunt on public land.  I shoot fairly well, and never shoot at an animal at a range or in a circumstance where I do not believe I can cleanly kill and recover the animal. 

That said, I have lost a few animals, which I hated.

This is also why I tend to over-gun for the target of choice.  "Too dead" is far better than "not dead enough."

While hunting this past season, twice in our group we had deer thought to be dead stand up and walk away.  Both were put down shortly after they got up, but neither was hit well enough to end life the first time.

Shoot well, rack another round, keep the animal in the scope, if it moves more than a little, shoot it again: words to live by!


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Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: Sparky
Date Posted: January/14/2019 at 16:04
A buddy of mine is a RO at a range that goes to 600yds. But they make you qualify at 200yds before you can shoot any farther. To qualify you have to shoot 3 rounds in a 4inch dot. He tells me about these guys with their custom rifles laugh and say that's easy. Most can't even hit the paper let alone the dot.


Posted By: mike650
Date Posted: January/14/2019 at 16:21
Not sure I could do that, it’d have to have antlers. 😉

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Fish to Live, Live to Hunt


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: January/14/2019 at 17:53
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

 The good news with those hunters is often 2-fold:

1.  They clean miss animals more than they hit them.
2.  They sell slightly used guns at significant markdowns, for those interested.

I seldom go to public ranges any more, and never hunt on public land.  I shoot fairly well, and never shoot at an animal at a range or in a circumstance where I do not believe I can cleanly kill and recover the animal. 

That said, I have lost a few animals, which I hated.

This is also why I tend to over-gun for the target of choice.  "Too dead" is far better than "not dead enough."

While hunting this past season, twice in our group we had deer thought to be dead stand up and walk away.  Both were put down shortly after they got up, but neither was hit well enough to end life the first time.

Shoot well, rack another round, keep the animal in the scope, if it moves more than a little, shoot it again: words to live by!

Absolutely...


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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: 8shots
Date Posted: January/15/2019 at 00:14
Confession time: I went hunting in Aug 2018.
Took two impala...one shot clean kills at about 150 yds.
Then went for a blue wildebeest. Probably 50 yds away. Went for the famous head shot. Well, after two hours of tracking on a few spots of blood every here and there we had to give it up.
I am still very unhappy about that. So these things happen, but it is about a hunters frame of mind that matters. Do you care or do you not care....


Posted By: cyborg
Date Posted: January/15/2019 at 00:24
 I have only ever lost two deer in my many years of hunting. Both times I put them down with the first shot, got out of the stand, and they got up. They were big deer in both cases. One was a Boone and Crocket contender for sure. It was a very easy 70 yard shot with my 300 wm. The deer got up and made it to a river and was gone. Only a 25 yard distance to that river. The other I have no explanation for except that these animals possess a remarkable will to live. Even dead they can and have traveled some incredible distances before being recovered. I had one that the heart was gone and half of both lungs, and that animal we tracked for two hours through brambles and bratches over a two hundred and fifty yard distance. Still though, 95% of them go down right where I shot them.

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With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other

An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects.

OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

Cyborg


Posted By: cyborg
Date Posted: January/15/2019 at 00:28
 WOOTER.... Hey Buddy. Good to see ya again. I told my Girlfriend about your zapper experience, she wet her pants too. LOL 

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With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other

An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects.

OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

Cyborg


Posted By: 8shots
Date Posted: January/16/2019 at 00:52
Originally posted by cyborg cyborg wrote:

 WOOTER.... Hey Buddy. Good to see ya again. I told my Girlfriend about your zapper experience, she wet her pants too. LOL 

Hug Good to see you back were you belong....


Posted By: cyborg
Date Posted: January/16/2019 at 00:59
Originally posted by 8shots 8shots wrote:

Originally posted by cyborg cyborg wrote:

 WOOTER.... Hey Buddy. Good to see ya again. I told my Girlfriend about your zapper experience, she wet her pants too. LOL 

Hug Good to see you back were you belong....
Thanks my brother.... Lile and I have talked a few times during my absence. I'm sure he passed along my well wishes to all of you. I'm happy to be back. 

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With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other

An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects.

OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

Cyborg


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: January/16/2019 at 10:27
Originally posted by Sparky Sparky wrote:

A buddy of mine is a RO at a range that goes to 600yds. But they make you qualify at 200yds before you can shoot any farther. To qualify you have to shoot 3 rounds in a 4inch dot. He tells me about these guys with their custom rifles laugh and say that's easy. Most can't even hit the paper let alone the dot.
 

The one public range I visit is similar: 600 yard max distance, qualify at 300 to be allowed to shoot there.  I think the target is a 6" bull, has to be 3 rounds in the bull to shoot at 600 - no fliers.  And I too have watched many an idiot (require many cease fires) shoot up many targets to get a qualifying target.  It saddens me.

I still have my first qualifying target from there, I posted it several years ago: 2 rounds touching, one about 1/2 inch away.  Done with a 5r 308, which I should not have sold.  




Originally posted by cyborg cyborg wrote:

 I have only ever lost two deer in my many years of hunting. Both times I put them down with the first shot, got out of the stand, and they got up. They were big deer in both cases. One was a Boone and Crocket contender for sure. It was a very easy 70 yard shot with my 300 wm. The deer got up and made it to a river and was gone. Only a 25 yard distance to that river. The other I have no explanation for except that these animals possess a remarkable will to live. Even dead they can and have traveled some incredible distances before being recovered. I had one that the heart was gone and half of both lungs, and that animal we tracked for two hours through brambles and bratches over a two hundred and fifty yard distance. Still though, 95% of them go down right where I shot them.
 

On our walkers at this particular ranch, I was present for one a few years ago where the shooter went a bit high, the round missed the spine but hit hard enough to knock the animal out for a few minutes.  The other was a shot on vitals that went too far forward, it zipped above the front legs, took some meat off the front quarters, but missed everything really important.  The deer could walk and run (kinda) but was not mortally wounded.  That said, there is a healthy coyote population, and he would not have survived long.

One friend shot a deer, left it on the ground for a bit, loaded it onto a trailer, took it back to camp, went into the lodge to get a drink, came back out and his son said, "Dad, your dear is leaving."  That deer had been on the ground for almost an hour, on the trailer for about 20 minutes, and finally decided to shamble off.  I missed the events, but did hear the 6 year old tell the tale, all while his dad giggled and shook his head.  For the record, the hunter was one of the best hunters I know.

When I took my trophy this year (knowing that when I squeeze the trigger, whether I recovered the animal or not, that was my trophy), I put the round exactly where I wanted it, immediately racked another, and stayed on the deer for a good 10 minutes before I came off scope and put the weapon on safe.  He did twitch his tail once and almost got a second round for that.

Always be ready for a second shot.


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Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: cyborg
Date Posted: January/19/2019 at 14:42
Hunt long enough and you can see all sort of things that make you wonder. I remember as young lad hearing tales and thinking, "yeah right" as I grew older I have come to realize many of those tales may well have been true.

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With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other

An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects.

OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

Cyborg


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: January/19/2019 at 17:48
The wounded deer showed up again tonight.  He has lost some weight, but is eating well.  I suspect he has not been traveling far... big limp and still carrying the right leg whenever he is standing still.  No outward signs of infection, but I just can't tell.  However, his eyes seem clear and he moves well except for the limp.  Nice 8 point.  Shame.  



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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: cyborg
Date Posted: January/19/2019 at 23:05
Hopefully he recovers fully. He may have a stunted rack on the left side next year, depending on how much healing takes place between now and the beginning of antler development for next season. As long as he's eating good, and staying active, those are good signs. My guess is he's young and strong, and he should recover fully. 

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With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other

An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects.

OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

Cyborg



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