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Scope and rings needed for Rem Mohawk 600

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sucker76 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sucker76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/03/2019 at 12:31
I think I'll be very happy with 2x on the bottom end.  That was the original power range I was looking for.  It can be very quick at 2x or 3x and more precise at 9x or 10x.  Most of our hunting is from a blind too.  Some shots are taken walking to or from the blind though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/03/2019 at 13:28
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Though I would opt for a variable that offers between 1.5X - 3X on the bottom end, I've got a fixed 4X and a fixed 6X on 2 hunting rifles, and I've never had an issue acquiring game animals through them at very close range, even as close as 25 yards, in fact. I wouldn't select those for stalking or driven hunting where I could be faced with quick offhand shot opportunities, but for stationary hunting in a stand/blind, even a fixed 6X hasn't ever been an impediment to making very close quarters shots for me. This isn't meant to imply that I'm recommending a fixed power, however, I do see the appeal of the simplicity of a fixed power scope. When hunting with a variable scope, even in the thick stuff, I usually have my scope set at 4X and only turn the power up or down as needed for a given shot. I've dialed up more Xs frequently, but I honestly can't remember when I've ever had the need to turn down the power. Then again, I almost always hunt from fixed positions.


As is sometimes the case, I'll dissent on this one.

Moving animals make things complicated, and moving animals at close range make it worse. Adding high magnification to that compounds the issues and can lead to mess-ups. I have heard, by a member of this forum, the words spoken: "I brought up the scope and couldn't see anything but fur and fired." Thankfully the animal was recovered, but it took some doing, and fortunately the animal shot the second time was the same animal shot the first time. That was not verified prior to squeezing the second round, because the animal was moving at close range with a scope set on 15X. It ended well, but could have easily ended with 2 down animals. Follow-up shots at high mag when everything is running around are no Bueno.

The smaller the FOV, the larger the chance of error, or that has been my experience.

And experiences vary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobinNC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/03/2019 at 15:28
You might want to take a look at Sightron's 2-10x32mm S-TAC 30mm scope. It would be outstanding for the smallish Rem. Mohawk 600. Yes, it's heavier than SWFA 2-10x32mm but I've never been enamored with lightweight scopes longevity in harsh hunting environments and overall recoil prowess.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/03/2019 at 15:33
For several years, I mostly hunted with a 6-20x56, mostly stalk hunting.  I never failed to take a shot because there was too much magnification, but there were situations where it was a little uncomfortable not being able to go to a lower magnification.  "Tracking" the animal with the scope is more difficult and it definitely goes out of view more easily.  I have a fixed 4x that I've never had any issues at all with.  Just lucky, I suppose... 
I prefer to have 2x on the low end, though I would not mind having a 1-10x scope.  Just have not gotten around to one.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/03/2019 at 15:42
I agree with that in general, RC... and certainly with regards your 15X analogy, but we're not talking about that much magnification and we perhaps differ on our definitions of "high magnification." I have never had too limiting a FOV or problems acquiring moving deer or feral pigs as close as 20 yards with a fixed 4X or scope mag set at 4X, and I've dispatched multiple dump truck loads of 'em. Likewise, the base magnification of one of my thermal scopes is 4X, and I've killed countless moving pigs at night at 25-50 yds with it. I agree that 6X is starting to become iffy at really close range, but I've never had an issue with getting on the vitals of moving game at that magnification from around 50 yds out. Again, all my deer hunting is done from stationary blinds & stands. If I was stalking or hunting driven game animals, I'd certainly want less magnification/greater FOV and would prefer 1.5X - 2X. But again, I leave all my variable scopes set at 4X as a starting point and only change magnification as the situation warrants. I've killed multiple deer at near spitting distance with my scope set on 4X with nary an issue. 

Next time you're out hunting, take a gander at a deer you're not intending to take at 25-50 yds through your scope set at 4X, or at 75 yds or so at 6X. It's far from a "nothing but fur" scenario. There's ample real estate visible all around the deer, and unless it's moving really fast (at which point your decision to shoot becomes very questionable anyway), I doubt you'd have any trouble putting crosshairs on vitals at those magnification/distance combinations. I hunt with 8X binos and have no difficulty whatsoever keeping an entire deer as close as 40 yds or so within the FOV of my bino. 

I routinely take photos of deer and other wildlife with a telephoto lens having 600mm effective focal length, which is roughly equivalent to 12X FOV. Here is one such photo I took of deer standing at 120 yds from me, with the 600mm effective (12X) FOV telephoto lens. This image was also cropped. Even if this cropped FOV was your view through an optic, do you believe you'd have an issue tracking those deer at half that distance?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/03/2019 at 15:45
Here is a shot I took of a blue wildebeest on a local exotic game ranch, in a dead run, at 75 yds, with the aforementioned 12X effective telephoto lens. I had no trouble keeping him within the FOV the whole time.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BlackSox16 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/03/2019 at 18:46
Good thread...I personally shoot most everything at 2.5x(technically 2.6( vx3 2.5-8×36))..even over 100 yds.  But then again I rarely shoot at game over 150 yds.  The land I hunt dictating this.  Paper is a different story.  I do see the pros & cons of both sides of the magnification debate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sucker76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/03/2019 at 19:44
Most of my hunting comes in at 60-120 yards.  There are right of ways that are about 300ish yards but I have never taken a deer at that range.  When I'm in the stand or walking around, I have the scope on the lowest power.  Once I'm in the stand, I may take it up a little.  the last one I got I had the scope on 3x and when I pulled the trigger I was at 5 or 6x to get a great look at the shot placement.  I will always want something less than 6x on the low end for general a hunting optic. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/04/2019 at 10:01
Ted (AKA Rifledude) and I often disagree, which is fine by both of us.

Personally, I know what I have experienced in the field. I can look at Ted's photos - taken with a camera and telephoto lens - meant to inform on riflescope usage, and appreciate the photo and disagree it is representative of the same situation with a riflescope on a rifle in use in the field when pulling a trigger on game. It isn't apple:oranges, it is more apples:meatloaf, in my humble estimation.

All that to say, I would not choose a fixed 6X on a hunting rifle.

And let us know how you like the scopes you did purchase.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sucker76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/04/2019 at 10:10
Thanks and will do.  The Vortex is arriving today.  I'll take a look at it after work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/04/2019 at 11:37
It's all good, RC. Make no mistake, I'm not at all advocating for high magnification scopes on hunting rifles. Far from it. In fact, my favorite hunting scopes are, as Koshkin has called them "tweeners" - medium powered variables...1.5-6X, 2-7X, 1.5-8X and the like. Most of my hunting rifles wear 2.5-10X class scopes. I have no big game hunting rifles with scopes having greater than 10X on the top end, in fact. I even agree with what you're saying, in principle.

All I'm saying is unless you're stalking, hunting driven game, dangerous game, etc where you expect close, quick reaction shots on potentially moving critters, you don't need as much "low" on the low end as you think you do to acquire them in your FOV. For those scenarios, sure, plenty of FOV is your friend, and I prefer 1.5-2X on the low end. If you're hunting from fixed positions like a blind or stand, which was the caveat I gave, you aren't at all handicapped by having "only" 4X on the low end or with a 4X fixed scope for up close encounters on game animals...even moving game animals, unless they are running flat out...in which case one really shouldn't be taking the shot anyway. Or at least, that's been my experience. 

Even though I prefer variable scopes, if I were forced to hunt with only fixed power scopes, I would happily carry on unabated with fixed 4X and 6X scopes and have just as much success. In fact, since 4X is my "default" setting on my variable scopes, I've killed truckloads of deer, pigs, and exotics at that magnification as close as 20 yds from me. 4X works just fine for close-up to medium distances, and 6X is probably the best fixed power magnification for all-around hunting, near to far, for all but extremely close shots. 6X will work just fine for anything around 50 yds and out. It all depends on the type of hunting you do.

And the camera - riflescope magnification comparison is absolutely an "apples to apples" comparison. FOV is FOV and magnification is magnification, no matter the type of optic. Of course following a moving critter with a camera vs a rifle involves different mechanics, but not entirely different. The FOV you see in a camera frame at a given magnification is equivalent to what you see in a sport optic at that same magnification. FOV is half of what defines magnification in the first place. The point was to show how large an animal appears within the FOV at a given distance at a given magnification, which applies to any optic, to show the relative amount of real estate surrounding a critter at said magnification.  Bottom line, if an *un-spooked* deer is standing 20 yards in front of you and you put a 4X optic on it, you won't just see fur, you'll be able to see and track the whole critter, unless you have really poor hand-eye coordination.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/04/2019 at 18:21
To only see fur at 4-6x you would have to be darn close for sure.  But that said, it is so much easier to find and follow a moving animal with lower mag.  I always run scopes with 3x or less on the bottom end and when stalking in the thicker stuff it rides on the low end.  If I am sitting it may be higher, but usually not by much. 

There are a lot of hunters who like 6x and up.  But I figure why reduce my chances.  I can easily hit anything within 200 yards on 3x and can see things up mighty close and moving pretty quick.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sucker76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/04/2019 at 19:56
I got the Vortex 2-10x40 razor HD LH om the mail today.  The glass is amazingly clear.  The rings haven't arrived yet so i couldn't mount it.  I looked through it across the house and the eye relief at all magnifications is about 4 inches.  I'm loving it.  I think the girls will love it also.  The reticle is nice and clear.  It's not too wide and obtrusive and also not too thin that it will get lost looking in the woods.  This is my first real use of a BDC type reticle.  All my other scopes have been simple crosshairs or plex or milling reticles.  I doubt I'll use it too much.  The turrets are OK.  The clicks are a little mushy and there is some slop between clicks.  They are definitely usable and better than a lot I have turned.  The turrets and the subtensions are both in MOA which is nice.  Overall I'm happy will my new find.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sucker76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/07/2019 at 14:33
Well here is the final product.  My daughter and I will take it out tomorrow to sight it in.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BlackSox16 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/07/2019 at 17:50
Looks good!👍
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atlas Shrug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/26/2019 at 20:56
Update?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sucker76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/27/2019 at 09:56
Update?  ....
It shoots!
It shoots really well.  I took it to a 50 yard indoor range since my outdoor range was a swamp from all the Imelda rain.  I sighted in 2 inches low at 50 yards.  I got a nice sub 1" group.  I was using factory Federal Fusion 95 gr rounds.  So far I like the Fusions in this rifle, my 30-06 and 6.5CM.  It took 5 rounds to get on point of aim.  I waited about 5 minutes to cool the barrel and then shot for groups.  The first 4 shot group was strung vertically but all touching in a slightly zig zag shape.  I let the barrel cool a little longer and the next 4 shots were more of a typical roundish grouping with a flyer.  Between me and my cousin we shot 20 rounds through it and were very pleased. 
The 18.5" barrel is quite the flame thrower.  Fire is all you see in the scope when the trigger is pulled.  It's going to be hell in low light. 
The Vortex Razor HD LH 2-10x40 was amazing.  I am glad I chose this one.  Perfectly clear at all magnification levels.  I didn't notice any chromatic aberrations at the edges of the targets or shapes.  Keep in mind that I am only looking at a 50 yard range indoors so not the best for review.  I should have looked down the road at something farther away.  The turrets are felt the same.  No real clicks but I got used to it and managed to adjust accurately. 
I will have to do a final sight in at 100 yards and then zero the turrets.
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