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Scope for 300 RUM, longer range hunting

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    Posted: January/24/2012 at 07:55
Hello sirs,

I'm looking for a scope for my new 300 RUM.  Rather than give you some long winded story, I'll keep it short.

Goals for this setup:
- < $1000 for the scope.
- Mil dot reticle, I'd prefer mil clicks if possible
- Mostly used for deer/paper/unlucky coyote, built for the eventual elk hunt
- FFP preferred, SFP on a variable power scope seems kind of useless if using the reticle to range
- My max range on the farm right now is 880 yards
- shots taken will be 100 yards to as far as I can accurately shoot, up to 900 yards.

Right now I'm looking pretty hard at the Vortex Viper PST, either 4-16 or 6-24x.  6-24x would be nice, I just don't know if at high magnification it would really that clear / useable.  I've always been the type of person that leaves my scopes set at max power 95% of the time anyways.

I've always been a cheap scope buyer, and I know you get what you pay for.  I'm trying to break that trend here and finally see the light, pun intended.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bitterroot Bulls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2012 at 08:24
I am in the same boat as you.  Same cartridge and same uses.  I will be interested in what others have to say.
 
I wonder if a SFP design couldn't expand your options a bit.  If you are at Max power anyway, the reticle should be calibrated there.  Sightron is making a nice 6-24 MIL/MIL scope in their s3 series with exposed, .1MIL clicks.
-Matt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BFL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2012 at 08:43
I haven't ruled out a SFP reticle.  I guess I'm just lazy haha.  I bought a Millett TRS-1 to learn on, and so far it's been a pretty decent scope for that purpose.  It is either parked on 12.5x or 25x though, so the reticle is useable.  I suppose its not that big of a deal, because any shot at an animal of any distance over 300 yards is going to be lasered anyways.

I'm probably a bad shooter for my magnification habits.  If I am close enough where it is hard to find the animal in the scope again immediately after the shot, I just open the other eye and watch it that way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2012 at 08:49
are you worried at all about weight?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2012 at 08:54
i would want as much weight as i could get with that cannonCrutch
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375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2012 at 09:00
Some Recommendations to ponder -
Minox 4-20X50 ZA5 Riflescope Minox 4-20X50 ZA5 Riflescope
Stock # - MIN66032
  • Matte
  • XR-BDC
  • 1"
  • Side Focus
  • Mail-In $50 Rebate
$728.95 
Also available with more mag - Minox-6-30x56
 
SWFA SS 5-20x50 Tactical 30mm Riflescope SWFA SS 5-20x50 Tactical 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SSHD520X50MQ
  • Patented First Focal Plane Mil-Quad Reticle
  • 30mm
  • HD Model
  • Locking Ocular Adjustment
  • 0.1 Mrad Elevation & Windage
  • 10 Mils Per Revolution
  • 30 Mils Of Total Travel
  • Side Focus
$1,299.95 
Add SWFA SS 5-20x50 Tactical 30mm Riflescope to Cart
More Details »

Optional Accessories:



 
Swarovski 4-12x50 Z3 Riflescope Swarovski 4-12x50 Z3 Riflescope
Stock # - SWA59026
  • Matte
  • BRH
  • 1"
$999.00 
 
Sightron 6-24x50 SIII 30mm Riflescope Mil-Dot Sightron 6-24x50 SIII 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SIIISS624X50LRMD
  • Matte
  • Mil-Dot
  • 30mm
  • Side Focus
  • 1/4 MOA Target Knobs
$848.95 
Add Sightron 6-24x50 SIII 30mm Riflescope to Cart
More Details »

Optional Accessories:

Or availible with more mag -  Sightron-8-32x56-SIII
 
Trijicon 5-20x50 Accu-Point 30mm Rifle Scope
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2012 at 09:02
id put the ss on it if it was mine.
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2012 at 09:04
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

id put the ss on it if it was mine.
Ditto
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lucytuma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2012 at 09:09
Great list of scopes "G", I've always been curious about the SIII line on scopes.
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." - Thomas Jefferson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2012 at 09:15
koskin likes them a fair amount i think
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dakotaman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2012 at 09:35
Good news... I think you have some good choices. I haven't had the opportunity to try all the latest scopes but will share my experience to date. I shoot a lot at 600 yards and some at 1000 yards with my custom .300 Dakota which has nearly identical ballistics to the RUM. I use a Leuy 6.5-20x40 on that. It is deadly accurate and has plenty of magnification for shooting prairie dogs at 1000 yards. I use a 20 MOA base and turret adjustments on that but agree with you that a mi-dot reticle is best for hunting applications. I get 3.5 inch five shot groups at 1000 yard and under 2 inches at 600 yards so I am happy with its visibility and its accuracy. That is with Berger 210s.
All scopes I would consider have good enough CLARITY to do the job. Therefore, the ONLY thing I care about at long range is ACCURACY. For me the Leupy 6.5-20 with great accuracy is my baseline. If my groups get bigger at 1000 yards with any other scope, that means the scope is bad for me. If the groups get smaller, that scope is WONDERFUL. I am not nearly as interested in perfect optical clarity as I am about accuracy without a perfect cheek weld for very long range hunting applications.
 
I also use a 4200 Elite Tactical 6-24x50 on my 25-06 for varmints. Although it is a little heavier, it has done very well. It is clear at all magnifications, has a nice visible mil-dot reticle and has minimal paralax. You don't have to have a perfect cheek weld to hit where the reticle is aiming. I feel comfortable ranging and hitting p-dogs almost 100% at 600 yards. In about three seconds, I ranged and shot a 500 yard antelope in the heart a few months ago and that was just too easy.
 
I haven't had the pleasure of using them but I am curious about the Vortex Vipers and the Elite 6500s. I like the features but they have to be accurate at long range and beat my Leupy (no parallax) before I would use them. I also want to explore the Nikons... they sure have clarity far beyond their price competition. Makes me wonder if they are accurate too.
 
I wish someone would perform an accuracy test on these scopes. I appreciate any factual comparisons but see people diferentiating features and light transmission. We can see these things ourselves but it takes time to shoot them for 25 rounds at 600 or 1000 yards to tell the real accuracy difference. (By the way, I would be happy to do that with a very accurate rifle in the interest of science if SWFA could supply a few trial scopes).
 
Best of luck with your new toy! (By the way, I slowed my 210s down to 2850 fps for minimal recoil and maximum accuracy at 1000 yards... As I crossed over 3150 fps, my eyes crossed and my groups got big). I don't use a muzzle brake because of noise and neighbor annoyance but that would allow more speed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2012 at 13:18
Originally posted by Dakotaman Dakotaman wrote:

  I get 3.5 inch five shot groups at 1000 yard and under 2 inches at 600 yards


That is really good shooting Dakotaman! Especially since I believe the 2006 world record in the light gun class was somewhere around 3.8" for ten rounds.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2012 at 16:58
SWFA SS 5-20x50 Tactical 30mm RiflescopeSWFA SS 5-20x50 Tactical 30mm ExcellentThunbs UpExcellentRiflescope
Stock # - SSHD520X50MQ
  • Patented First Focal Plane Mil-Quad Reticle
  • 30mm
  • HD Model
  • Locking Ocular Adjustment
  • 0.1 Mrad Elevation & Windage
  • 10 Mils Per Revolution
  • 30 Mils Of Total Travel
  • Side Focus
$1,299.95

"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2012 at 17:00
While I dearly love the Trijicon Accupoint scopes the sad truth is they only have 50 moa of internal adjustment  and the knobs are 1/4moa clicks.  Do not use over a plus 20 moa rail if you select this scope.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2012 at 17:06
While I like this scope it has its limitations because to use the balistic reicle you have to figure out the right power to set it on for your bullet. There is a calculator on the Zeiss web site but a bit complex.  For a 300WSM  running 190 SMK at 2900 fps  I was at 6x at 300 and about 10x the rest of the way out but its no where near as easy  for me as tactical knobs and dialing in correction.
Zeiss 4.5-14x50 Conquest Rifle Scope Rapid Z 800 Zeiss 4.5-14x50 Conquest Rifle Scope
Stock # - ZEI5214919972
  • Matte
  • Rapid Z 800
  • 1"
  • Side Focus
  • Hunting Turrets
  • Etched Glass
  • 2nd Plane
$949.95 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dakotaman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2012 at 17:09
Thanks Sparky, it IS very good and I feel pretty lucky to get that. I'm not bragging, just making the point that the scope is about as good as they get and that is why I use it. A group that size has only happened once for me and I feel you just have to be lucky when it happens. However, there is a big difference between a five and a ten shot group at that range. Also, by now I believe the record is closer to 2.2 inches but I'm not a competetive shooter so don't know for sure. It is real easy for the wind to blow one an extra three inches at any time. The same day I shot that group, I had a REAL nice four shot group going and was really trying to put the last bullet right in the middle of the group. I took too long taking the shot and failed to notice that the wind had died completely in about 30 seconds. My last shot hit 17 inches to the right... that's 1000 yard shooting. My barrel is as good as anyone's though and it might be able to set records if I would just get in a match... At least that's what the barrel maker's VP of Engineering advised.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BFL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2012 at 17:09
Thanks for all the great suggestions so far, it is greatly appreciated.

As far as weight goes, the more the merrier.  I've only shot the rifle a handful of times, and to be perfectly honest, recoil didn't feel much more than a hunting buddies 7mm Mag.  Granted it was 150gr Rem factory loads; the 200-210gr handloads I'm planning will have a little more thump to the shoulder.

 I don't think the recoil is really as bad as it is made out to be.  I wouldn't want to sit and burn through a couple hundred rounds with it, but it's far from the "holy crap what just happened and who are you?" kick I was expecting lol.

Rifle is a left hand 700 BDL.  I'm going to put a 1 piece 20MOA base on it, what height rings would you guys suggest?  First 700 I've owned.

Again, thanks for the recommendations, definitely some more options to ponder.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2012 at 17:21
With a 30mm tube and 50 mm objective on a Plus 20 moa Talley rail low rings will be tight with lens caps so Medium is usually a better choice.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BFL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2012 at 04:54
Has anyone looked through the SWFA andViper PST side by side? I may be able to look at a vortex this week at cabalas, but no SWFA scopes around that I know of.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigdaddy0381 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2012 at 06:49
This is my 300RUM with the SS 5x20HD. Its a great scope for this round or any other round.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dakotaman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2012 at 08:07
Very nice Bigdaddy! Thats a first class rig. I noticed that it is not a featherweight barrel... happy hunting!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2012 at 08:16
Originally posted by Dakotaman Dakotaman wrote:

Very nice Bigdaddy! Thats a first class rig. I noticed that it is not a featherweight barrel... happy hunting!

i dont think you understand friend, brandon dont go huntin, he goes keelinBucky
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jon A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2012 at 16:55
Originally posted by BFL BFL wrote:

6-24x would be nice, I just don't know if at high magnification it would really that clear / useable. 

The answer to this is yes, this scope is very clear and quite usable on 24X.  It has really good glass (far better than the two 4-16 PST's I had) for the price range and would make  an excellent choice.

Where I feel it lacks a bit for hunting use is close range stuff if you do any woods hunting, etc.  The FOV is a bit narrow on 6X and its eye relief is a bit unfriendly,  especially when mounted on a 20 MOA base.  For 100+ you should be fine though, depending upon your comfort level.  It's also pretty long and the turrets are tall which you may not like for scabbard use but will work with the right kind of scabbard.

Originally posted by BFL BFL wrote:

Has anyone looked through the SWFA andViper PST side by side? I may be able to look at a vortex this week at cabalas, but no SWFA scopes around that I know of.


Yes,  extensively.   The SS glass is better.  If you can afford it and don’t mind the extra weight, the SS would be my first choice.  In most aspects I like it better (though it's not really a fair comparison as it is quite a bit more expensive).  In use it has a pretty big advantage at close range with larger FOV and friendlier eyebox.  At long range it will have roughly equal resolution, much more travel, 10 Mils per turn of the turret, etc.  It's just a really, really good tool for long range shooting.  Built super heavy duty, dead nuts reliable, etc, it's hard to beat.

For ring height, you'll probably be right on the edge with lows (~.83" for most brands) depending upon the thickness of your base with both scopes.  Here's a shot with it on my 300 RUM with lows:



Mediums are a safer bet to work off the bat, but if you feel the height is important you may want to try lows first to see if they'll work and swap to mediums only if they don't.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ckk1106 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2012 at 21:17
Originally posted by Jon A Jon A wrote:

Originally posted by BFL BFL wrote:

6-24x would be nice, I just don't know if at high magnification it would really that clear / useable. 

The answer to this is yes, this scope is very clear and quite usable on 24X.  It has really good glass (far better than the two 4-16 PST's I had) for the price range and would make  an excellent choice.

Where I feel it lacks a bit for hunting use is close range stuff if you do any woods hunting, etc.  The FOV is a bit narrow on 6X and its eye relief is a bit unfriendly,  especially when mounted on a 20 MOA base.  For 100+ you should be fine though, depending upon your comfort level.  It's also pretty long and the turrets are tall which you may not like for scabbard use but will work with the right kind of scabbard.

Originally posted by BFL BFL wrote:

Has anyone looked through the SWFA andViper PST side by side? I may be able to look at a vortex this week at cabalas, but no SWFA scopes around that I know of.


Yes,  extensively.   The SS glass is better.  If you can afford it and don’t mind the extra weight, the SS would be my first choice.  In most aspects I like it better (though it's not really a fair comparison as it is quite a bit more expensive).  In use it has a pretty big advantage at close range with larger FOV and friendlier eyebox.  At long range it will have roughly equal resolution, much more travel, 10 Mils per turn of the turret, etc.  It's just a really, really good tool for long range shooting.  Built super heavy duty, dead nuts reliable, etc, it's hard to beat.

For ring height, you'll probably be right on the edge with lows (~.83" for most brands) depending upon the thickness of your base with both scopes.  Here's a shot with it on my 300 RUM with lows:



Mediums are a safer bet to work off the bat, but if you feel the height is important you may want to try lows first to see if they'll work and swap to mediums only if they don't.

Man, that is a nice looking setup.  Excellent
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BFL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2012 at 04:06
Originally posted by ckk1106 ckk1106 wrote:

Originally posted by Jon A Jon A wrote:

Originally posted by BFL BFL wrote:

6-24x would be nice, I just don't know if at high magnification it would really that clear / useable. 

The answer to this is yes, this scope is very clear and quite usable on 24X.  It has really good glass (far better than the two 4-16 PST's I had) for the price range and would make  an excellent choice.

Where I feel it lacks a bit for hunting use is close range stuff if you do any woods hunting, etc.  The FOV is a bit narrow on 6X and its eye relief is a bit unfriendly,  especially when mounted on a 20 MOA base.  For 100+ you should be fine though, depending upon your comfort level.  It's also pretty long and the turrets are tall which you may not like for scabbard use but will work with the right kind of scabbard.

Originally posted by BFL BFL wrote:

Has anyone looked through the SWFA andViper PST side by side? I may be able to look at a vortex this week at cabalas, but no SWFA scopes around that I know of.


Yes,  extensively.   The SS glass is better.  If you can afford it and don’t mind the extra weight, the SS would be my first choice.  In most aspects I like it better (though it's not really a fair comparison as it is quite a bit more expensive).  In use it has a pretty big advantage at close range with larger FOV and friendlier eyebox.  At long range it will have roughly equal resolution, much more travel, 10 Mils per turn of the turret, etc.  It's just a really, really good tool for long range shooting.  Built super heavy duty, dead nuts reliable, etc, it's hard to beat.

For ring height, you'll probably be right on the edge with lows (~.83" for most brands) depending upon the thickness of your base with both scopes.  Here's a shot with it on my 300 RUM with lows:



Mediums are a safer bet to work off the bat, but if you feel the height is important you may want to try lows first to see if they'll work and swap to mediums only if they don't.

Man, that is a nice looking setup.  Excellent


Good info on the eye relief on the Vortex, I was just looking at the specs listed and they were the same for both scopes.

Thanks all for the great insight and information.  I've decided to go the SS route, I will just have to wait a little longer.  Thanks again.
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