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Scope for 500-600 yards+

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maverickar15 View Drop Down
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    Posted: September/24/2010 at 09:47
Hello all, first time posting on Optics Talk.

I just got Remington 700 Police yesterday in .308 win after all these years and now it is sitting alone with just a bipod. I need help finding a scope that is matched to the rifle. I don't want to buy something I will regret later but I can't drop $4000 on a Zeiss either.

What I want to do at this point is to keep within MoA out to 600 yards. I currently have SS 10x42 (not HD) on the AR and I shoot it out to 300 yards no problem with Hornady match loads. I was naturally going to buy SS 10x42 HD but I don't think it is enough magnification to "target shoot" at 500-600 yards.

Price range I'm looking for is under $1200 if possible. I was recommended a NightForce 5-22x50 zero-stop NP-R2 but the price was pretty steep. I know you get what you pay for in the optics realm but wanted to hear about opinions first.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/24/2010 at 11:26
Originally posted by maverickar15 maverickar15 wrote:

Hello all, first time posting on Optics Talk.

I just got Remington 700 Police yesterday in .308 win after all these years and now it is sitting alone with just a bipod. I need help finding a scope that is matched to the rifle. I don't want to buy something I will regret later but I can't drop $4000 on a Zeiss either.

What I want to do at this point is to keep within MoA out to 600 yards. I currently have SS 10x42 (not HD) on the AR and I shoot it out to 300 yards no problem with Hornady match loads. I was naturally going to buy SS 10x42 HD but I don't think it is enough magnification to "target shoot" at 500-600 yards.

Price range I'm looking for is under $1200 if possible. I was recommended a NightForce 5-22x50 zero-stop NP-R2 but the price was pretty steep. I know you get what you pay for in the optics realm but wanted to hear about opinions first.
Your requirement states MOA to 600 yards.  There is no reason you should not be able to do much better than that with the SS10xHD. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maverickar15 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/24/2010 at 12:25
So 6 inches at 600 yards is doable with just 10 power scope? (yes I sound like a novice and I really am a Novice)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/24/2010 at 12:26
Nightforce or IOR, both more $$.

You'd be very hard pressed to find a better optic than the 10X HD for >$1200.

And, as said before, as will be said many more times again, NEVER sacrifice glass quality for more magnification. Ever.  I would gladly take a great 10X over an okay 20X.

I've shot beyond 1000 yards with a fixed 10X, if you do your part and rifle does its, 1 MOA should be no problem.  Watch those range flags.

The 10X HD will not disappoint.

Other options, IOR, Nightforce, something used on the sample list.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/24/2010 at 12:29
10xHd will do all you want and be the best glass around for under a grand!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/24/2010 at 12:31
Originally posted by maverickar15 maverickar15 wrote:

So 6 inches at 600 yards is doable with just 10 power scope? (yes I sound like a novice and I really am a Novice)


If the shooter does his part, the rifle is capable of such results, the ammo is up to the task, the scope is properly mounted and doped: absolutely.  If any of these isn't as it should be, no scope in the world will pull the round on target.


Edited by Rancid Coolaid - September/24/2010 at 12:58
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/24/2010 at 12:47
Can you see your target at 60yds? That would be similar to a good 10x at 600yds. It is not exactly the same but it would give you an idea.

The quality of the glass does make a big difference. One of my first scopes was a Leupold VX III 6.5-20 because I thought I needed more magnification to see at longer ranges. But after comparing my Leupold to my buddies Nightforce 2.5-10 at 300 yds I purchased a Nightforce. The target was much clearer and I had better resolution with the 10x over the 20x.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maverickar15 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/24/2010 at 13:03
Thank you for the reply folks.

I actually have a non-HD SS 10x42 that I use on my 20" AR and I shoot at 300 yards with good results. I was looking at a target at 500 yards with the same scope and I thought I needed more magnification to hit dinner plates at that range, but if the clarity of 10X HD is that much better than non-HD 10X then I'm inclined to try this one out.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/24/2010 at 13:08
MUCH!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stickbow46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/24/2010 at 19:43
I own a 700 police in .223 with a SS 10X HD riding it & could'nt be happier.Got to say though I only shoot out to 400yds If you go for the XD you will never be sorry.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maverickar15 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/24/2010 at 22:21
Thanks for the welcome Big Grin

I will be ordering SS 10X42 HD and TPS mount/rings for my 700P.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/26/2010 at 00:37
Good choice, the new line from SWFA (the 10HD, 3-9x42 and the upcoming 1-4x24) are hard to beat when all factors (especially price :) ) are considered. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/26/2010 at 07:59
I have the 10x HD on my long range .308  R5 Mil Spec and shoot 600 yds quit a bit. If I wanted more power and needed to keep the price range down Sightron makes a fixed 16x and a fixed 20x in their SIII line that are a good choice.  A lot of it depends on how you use the rifle. I have a 6x Super Sniper and a 6x Leupold FX3 that I shoot at 600 yds also and the reason that the lower power scopes make sense is that in low light they are brighter.   I think the place a 16 or 20 x scope makes the most sense is daylight targets at 200 to 300 yds because you can see the holes without a spotting scope.

Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - September/26/2010 at 08:01

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maverickar15 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/26/2010 at 22:54
I was at range yesterday and I had a chance to look through a Vortex scope set at 14x (I believe it was a crossfire with 1" tube, a budget model IIRC) and the difference in magnification between 10x and 14x wasn't that great. However the mirage was so bad it was akin to looking through my POS spotting scope set at 60x. Yes you can "see" the silhouette at 300 yards but the resolution is so bad I can't make anything out.

I could really understand why you would make statements such as never trade glass quality for magnification (of course you can get both, but that is $$$$ Big Grin) I can't wait to try this 10X HD out once it gets here.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maverickar15 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/29/2010 at 21:41
Just got 10x42 HD mounted on the 700P Big Grin... can't wait to try it out at the range!





Together with AR15 setup with old 10x42 non-HD

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JLud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/29/2010 at 21:43
Maverick,
 
How would you rate the difference in view between the 2?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote neilbilly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/29/2010 at 22:15
Nice rigs, both of them. Thunbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/30/2010 at 11:25
I can't speak for how maverick will rate them, but I'd say the $500 difference in price is more than justified - in glass alone, much less glass and turrets.  And don't forget the new one is mil/mil rather than mil/MOA; it is a trivial thing, but worth some notice and some $$.

Having owned both, the old 10X is a great bargain, the new 10X HD is in a whole other league.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stickbow46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/30/2010 at 16:13
+1 with RC.Also both nice looking rigs!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maverickar15 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/30/2010 at 22:14
Brief range report -

At the distances we were shooting today (only about to 300 yards mostly for zeroing) there wasn't too much difference between the two when it was fully lit, and was initially disappointed. However, I noticed HD was much brighter of the two and as sun crept down it became more and more obvious that HD had better glass. The details on the targets and landscape were easier to make out. I can't say anything other than "it just looks sharper and more crisp".

HD had slight tunnel vision compared to non-HD - I thought this was odd.

Adjustment turret knobs on the HD model is completely bang on - got it zeroed at 100 yards, calculated how many clicks I needed to get to 300 yds with ballistics table and it was completely dead on - got it on the first try. Very positive click but it won't move unless you want it to.

Fit and finish on the HD is also a couple of steps above non HD (not saying non HD is bad). HD just has much more premium feel to it.

At 300 yards, the best 700P shot today about 3.7" group with 150 gr SST's and 2.2" group with 168 gr A-MAX's. Not too shabby with A-MAX's but hoping to get better as barrel the gets broken in. Obviously it didn't like the 150 gr all that much.

Overall impressed but I think it will be even better at 400, 500 and 600 yards!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2010 at 14:51
My guns tend to like Amax more than anything else, even SMK.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maverickar15 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2010 at 15:38
Update -

Went to shoot again this weekend. My best shot group was 2.1" at 300 yards so not too bad, but I was surprised that my dad managed 4.16" group at 500 yards. We couldn't repeat sub MoA group after that at 500 yards due to wind (and I don't know how to compensate for the wind at all).

I'm very satisfied with the 10x HD as the glass is much brighter and even clearer than 10x42 non-HD, and that scope is already a good scope to begin with. The light transmission is very good with this scope, it almost seems as if somebody was shining a flashlight through the scope to the target.

I' also have to say the controls are very accurate and robust - I kept dialing it in between 300, 500 and 600 yards and the clicks were accurate and it was always spot on as far as the elevation goes (windage is a completely different story due to wind ).



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/12/2010 at 12:07
http://www.windswag.com/main.html

Problem: solved.


Glad to hear you like the 10X HD, it is a great scope.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonoMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/12/2010 at 14:23
Granted I gotta worry about keeping the sucker charged, but I've been pretty happy having a portable ballistics calculator to handle drops and wind for a variety of loads.
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