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Sighting in a Mil/Mil Scope |
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supertool73 ![]() Optics God ![]() ![]() Superstool Joined: January/03/2008 Status: Offline Points: 11048 |
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That is correct. That is really the only way you can do it. You can use ballistic calcs to get close, but shooting is the only way to get real dope.
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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.
"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own." |
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Marine24 ![]() Optics Journeyman ![]() Joined: June/07/2010 Location: Monument, CO Status: Offline Points: 657 |
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Lot more efficient method than checking a drop chart from a manufacturer, which is typically listed in inches, doing the math to convert to mil or moa clicks, making the adjustments to the scope, firing a group and then making adjustments again.
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tpcollins ![]() Optics Journeyman ![]() Joined: January/12/2009 Status: Offline Points: 406 |
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I do something similar but in reverse when mounting a regular scope after getting it close with my Zero Point. I aim at the bull and shoot. Re-aim at the bull, hold the rifle steady, turn each turret until the crosshair aligns on the POI.
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TBonez ![]() Optics GrassHopper ![]() ![]() Joined: June/06/2013 Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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Rancid, If I was using a laser boresight and forgive my newbness but I could just then turn my turrets to match where the laser is pointing right? no need to take shots correct?
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TBonez ![]() Optics GrassHopper ![]() ![]() Joined: June/06/2013 Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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Sorry for the other post lol... So if I was using a laser boresight - and forgive me for my newbness - but couldnt I just turn my scope to match the laser and not fire any shots at all? Might be an obvious yes answer but I just want to be sure I'm sighting correctly in that process...
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Sparky ![]() Optics Master Extraordinaire ![]() Joined: July/15/2007 Location: SD Status: Offline Points: 3890 |
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You will still need to shoot a group to verify. For me I have never had a laser bore sighted rifle match the actual bullet impact. I have how ever heard of it working for some people. Just not me. And you will not know unless you fire a few rounds.
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Cold Trigger Finger ![]() Optics Apprentice ![]() Joined: December/20/2013 Location: Int.Alaska Status: Offline Points: 209 |
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This was my understanding of the usefulness of a mil/ mil quad reticle. To use it as a measuring device. . Save a lot of walking and math. For those who are math challenged like me.
I've used the 2 shot method. And has been mentioned I found shooting a group to be more reliable for a general hunting rifle. |
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Theo ![]() Optics GrassHopper ![]() ![]() Joined: June/20/2013 Location: La, USA Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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In my experience, I always remember " BS "... B=Bullet POI TO S=Scope
POI. I use this consistent scope turret movements for both Bore
Sighting(BPOI=Bulls Eye) and Zeroing(BPOI=Actual Impact) adjustments!
Simply, if the Bullet POI is at the 10o'clock position from the Bulls Eye (say 1 moa to the left & 1 moa up), I dial 1 moa elevation to the right, and 1 moa windage down, adjusting turrets as a measurement (use mil specs if appropriate). I don't hold the rifle perfectly still to visualize the change while looking through the scope. I find the measurement method easier, following the logic of turret direction, but either will get you on ZERO! Works for me, but can verify here Scope Zeroing and of course, page one Here of the OP...Christopher! |
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Jack of Many Trades-Master of Few!
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stifun ![]() Optics GrassHopper ![]() ![]() Joined: January/04/2014 Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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that's ok when zeroing in but when you've zeroed in and looking at targets varying in distance you need to know that 2 mil dots down =10 or 12 or how many yds it is at that distance so 30yds zero, target 47 yds what dots do you look at
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Cold Trigger Finger ![]() Optics Apprentice ![]() Joined: December/20/2013 Location: Int.Alaska Status: Offline Points: 209 |
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Good question.
One I don't know the answer to. |
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You are being watched.
If it can't be grown, It's gotta be mined |
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stifun ![]() Optics GrassHopper ![]() ![]() Joined: January/04/2014 Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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I hope some one does http://www.opticstalk.com/smileys/Whacko.gif
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Mike220 ![]() Optics GrassHopper ![]() Joined: January/08/2014 Location: Tx Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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Good write up! This Is why I always reccomend folks to get the 1/10 mil turrets to match there milliradian based reticle. The adjustments match the grid. Its also helpful to know what the value mil holds In relation to yardage. 1 mil at 100 yards = 3.6" with your 1/10 turret one click eguals. 36" 1 mil at 200 yards has a value of 7.2" with a 1/10 click value of. 72" so on and so forth. Once you get the basics you can also range targets with your reticle. The only inch value I use Is for my target heights. If you know the height of your target that can be used along with your reticle. Target height In inches divided by # of mils read x 27.78 eguals distance to target.
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jonoMT ![]() Optics Master Extraordinaire ![]() ![]() Joined: November/13/2008 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 4835 |
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I prefer to convert the target width or height (whatever's being measured) to distance units first (yards or meters), e.g. 18" = .5 yards. Multiply that times 1000 and you have the distance at 1 mil, e.g. 500 yards. Then divide by mils read, 500 / .8 mils = 625. Metric users have it a bit easier, since all units are decimal, e.g. 54 cm = .54 meters. With yards and inches, I found it helped to remember that every 4 inches is ~.11 yards: 4 0.11 8 0.22 12 0.33 16 0.44 20 0.56 24 0.67 28 0.78 32 0.89 36 1.00 Got a target size like 19"? Just go with 20, especially if the mils read is greater than 1. Frankly, if you're dealing with a target less than 18" and are reading less than .75 mils, you'd better be really good. The farther out you shoot, the harder it is to range and ballistics are increasingly not in your favor. If you're off by 25 yards at 750 yards that's probably a miss. |
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Reaction time is a factor...
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Mike220 ![]() Optics GrassHopper ![]() Joined: January/08/2014 Location: Tx Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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To much there for me to keep up with lol. Ill stick to what's easy for me. Can have alot of fun with It. Chrony your loads. Run through a ballistics trajectory program. Gets you close. Nothing beats actual range time though. Always good to keep data wrote down for various shooting conditions. Do the same thing with my hand loads.
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stifun ![]() Optics GrassHopper ![]() ![]() Joined: January/04/2014 Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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thanks for that mate ,its been interesting I think I need a lot of range time to get to know my scope ,I have a competition in Feb so fingers crossed I will have it sorted ,off to the range now see you in 3 weeks
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dustin198308 ![]() Optics GrassHopper ![]() Joined: January/20/2014 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 2 |
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I will have to agree with Rancid koolaid on this, I will go a little further on this though.
I do some marksmanship instructing for some people and I have had some training from some very well known people and have been shooting mil/mil for sometime now. One of the first things that anyone will tell you is to dry fire, dry fire, dry fire. It will do nothing but help you. Some of the best shooters in the world dry fire more than they actually shoot live ammo. One of the first things I do when I get to the range is get a nice steady position built, usually in the prone with the front of the gun on bags or bipods, and a sandsock under the buttstock. I will then get straight behind the gun focusing on my body position and natural point of aim, I then relax myself and start dry firing for at least 15 minutes before loading my first round, while doing this I am focusing on my point of aim, my breathing, relaxing, body position, and trigger pull. I aim my reticle at the exact point to which I will be aiming when I shoot that first round. Once everything feels just right and I am back in the groove, I will chamber my first round, these shots should be good because I've already shot them 20-30 times. One key here is the steady position of the gun, as one guy was saying about not seeing the impact exactly, with a good position and a decent scope you should always fall right back on target before the bullet impacts at distance, this should be practiced at all times. If using bipods put some forward pressure on them and take the "slack" out of them. Use your firing hand, except your firing finger and pull the gun into you. Now I will fire not 1 but 3-5 rounds not worrying about where they hit but that the group is solid. When teaching I will have students shoot at least 5 5 round groups before trying to zero, all you want here is a nice tight group. If I do not get a nice group at first I continue shooting groups until I do, sometimes taking a break and coming back to it to get the group that the particular gun should be acheiving. Then I hold the center cross hair or whatever reticle I may be using on the aiming point in which I was using, then I use it like a measuring tape and I measure the distance to that shot group. I then make corrections on the scope and shot another 3-5 round group, should be dead on at this point, maybe a minor tweak here or there until I hit the center of my group exactly where I am aiming. No point to go down range with a decent scope, 9-10 power can see a hole down range at 100 yds pretty easily. This same method works for MOA reticles or MILS, they are just units of measurement, no need to get wrapped up in what x means at y distance, just use it to measure with. I know this was a little long winded but I love to help people out with stuff like this. Thanks for listening to babble on and on.
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"The bullet will never lie"
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Cold Trigger Finger ![]() Optics Apprentice ![]() Joined: December/20/2013 Location: Int.Alaska Status: Offline Points: 209 |
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Dustin ; sounds like you have a good system. I end up getting in too much of a hurry sometimes when I'm at the range. And I haven't concentrated onset fire practice. I want to get good at reading, understanding and using the mil scale reticle.
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You are being watched.
If it can't be grown, It's gotta be mined |
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Rudy Dog ![]() Optics GrassHopper ![]() Joined: March/06/2014 Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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Good write up, sometimes people overthink things like this. Easiest sight in session I had was when I used a mil/mil scope, took 3 rounds only because the target wasn't big enough to see where the first shot actually went. People need to remember that this is to be used on FFP or at the proper magnification for a SFP.
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critterdoc ![]() Optics GrassHopper ![]() ![]() Joined: July/10/2014 Location: 'bout +30°, -90 Status: Offline Points: 6 |
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Hi Chris, I do not have the post count to upload an image of the Burris Ballistic MilDot reticle in an XTR 312 that I recently acquired and am wondering if it might be workable to ignore the absolute relationships between the ballistic elements in the reticle below the horizontal windage axis and (with practice) estimate hold over or hold under adjustments based on visual extrapolation of relative distance on the mil dot section of the vertical axis with magnification set to 12x with this rear focal plane device.
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critterdoc ![]() Optics GrassHopper ![]() ![]() Joined: July/10/2014 Location: 'bout +30°, -90 Status: Offline Points: 6 |
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Here's a hyperlink link to the ballistic Mil-Dot Reticle on the Burris website per my question in the above post.
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omegabrock ![]() Optics GrassHopper ![]() Joined: August/05/2014 Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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is this something that i need to pay special attention to when buying a scope? i would assume that they would match, or are they known for having reticles in 1 measurement and adjustments in the other?
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BeltFed ![]() Optics God ![]() ![]() Joined: February/12/2008 Location: Ky Status: Offline Points: 18573 |
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Older scopes (as little as a few years ago) would have Mil reticles and Minute of Angle (MOA) adjustments. Of course this made sighting in a mathmatical headache. It is always best to make sure that the reticle and turret adjustments match. You can get scopes in both Mil-Mil or MOA-MOA. |
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Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.
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Cold Trigger Finger ![]() Optics Apprentice ![]() Joined: December/20/2013 Location: Int.Alaska Status: Offline Points: 209 |
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The SWFA SS Classic moa line of fixed power scopes have 1/4 moa adjustments. As far as I know ( admittedly not too much knowledge).
All mil dot scopes are milli radian but the adjustments " turrets" may be mil or moa. As has been said. The mil/ mil is the easiest to deal with. The SWFA " mil quad reticle being very nice and about as easy as it gets from my research. |
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You are being watched.
If it can't be grown, It's gotta be mined |
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Rancid Coolaid ![]() Optics Jedi Master ![]() ![]() Joined: January/19/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8750 |
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![]() How do I zero with that, huh? Huh!
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Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn. Equality is something you whine about not being given. |
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sscoyote ![]() Optics Journeyman ![]() Joined: October/05/2004 Status: Offline Points: 327 |
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Gawd that was funny! |
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Steve
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