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Standard manufacturing 1911

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2018 at 21:13
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Hello to all. I was curious if anyone has had any experience with the case colored versions of this handgun. They remind me of the Olympic Arms 1911s marketed under the name of Safari Arms. Thx in advance.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/16/2018 at 21:55
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None. But I will eventually have a color case hardened 1911!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2018 at 03:57
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Get it done by Doug Turnbull.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2018 at 08:11
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 Interesting look.....  Would be a cool open carry rig for sure.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2018 at 20:21
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While I have had nothing done by Turnbull there are a lot of others offering the same service but at a much lower price. Admittedly I have never had anything done by his competitors.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2018 at 21:00
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That’s why Mercedes cost more than Chevy’s!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/18/2018 at 22:30
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And that is why multiple other manufacturers surpass Turnbull.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/19/2018 at 19:14
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Originally posted by Bolthunter Bolthunter wrote:

And that is why multiple other manufacturers surpass Turnbull.


Surpass in what way, and which manufacturers?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/19/2018 at 19:18
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Originally posted by Bolthunter Bolthunter wrote:

While I have had nothing done by Turnbull there are a lot of others offering the same service but at a much lower price. Admittedly I have never had anything done by his competitors.


This is Bolt hunters quote! Never & never!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/21/2018 at 22:29
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To the uninformed there are multiple other restoration specialists with a good reputation that do this work much less expensively. You are free to search the internet for these specialists. Common sense would suggest that the statistical probability of this is likely. Just as restoration of an English double is much less expensive in GB as compared to the USA, there will always be competiton for similar services. Capitalism they call it. Flagrant belief in the superioriy of work that for whatever reason you have fallen in love with doesn’t mean it is unequivocally the best. All that being said,Turnbull obviously has a fine reputation and I would not hesitate purchasing one of his products, but blind trust in him being the best is at least foolish.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/21/2018 at 23:23
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Nobody argued that other shops can’t/don’t do similar work for less money than Turnbull. In fact, I’m reasonably certain most of Turnbull’s competitors’ work is less expensive. I’m also reasonably sure that there are others out there who do fine work that rivals Turnbull. But “surpass?” Not saying such doesn’t exist, but I’ve yet to see it if it does.

You’re moving the goal posts quite a bit here. Your exact, verbatim words were that “MULTIPLE other manufacturers SURPASS Turnbull.” Pretty definitive statement there. Since you said that there are in fact “multiple” other shops whose work “surpasses” Turnbull’s work, and since those words have specific meanings, I simply wanted to know who some of these shops are. Given there are “multiples” of them, it should be very easy to list a few, and since they’ve managed to “surpass” Turnbull, that’s badass news that I’m excited to hear! Such news needs to be shared and celebrated!

But alas...then you admit you’ve never owned any examples of Turnbull’s work NOR have you owned any examples of his competitors’ work either. Yet somehow you had no reservation in stating definitively that “multiple other manufacturers surpass Turnbull.” It’s therefore reasonable for the astute to ask you how you know this to be true given you spoke as the voice of authority on the topic without having owned any examples of same. Since we’re talking about what, in your words “common sense would suggest,” common sense would suggest that you in fact don’t know what you’re talking about.

I happen to be a guy who does own guns with Turnbull’s color case hardened finishes. I also own guns that have color case finishes and other specialty metal finishes done by other shops. I’ve also held and closely examined countless examples of Turnbull’s work and countless examples of competing work. I’ve seen nobody yet who is as good as Turnbull Restoration at what they do best. This isn’t just my opinion either. Probably the majority of custom firearms and upscale limited edition production firearms that feature color case finishes were sent to Turnbull, for good reason...and it certainly ain’t because he’s the cheapest. Personally, when I want high end work done, I don’t seek out those who are the cheapest. I seek out those who do the best work within a price range I’m willing to pay, knowing full well if I want quality, I’m gonna have to part with more money to get it.

Turnbull the man and Turnbull Restoration the company didn’t gain their reputation by accident. There’s a damn good reason he/they are considered the best within the categories of work he/they do.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2018 at 04:48
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Obviously I have touched on a nerve that is raw and exposed. Admittedly, “suppose” was a relatively poor choice of a word as it was meant to be contextually understood. You went on to explain this in great detail but with a back drop of resentment probably due to the money you have spent on his work thereby demonstrating a large degree of guilt tempered by doubt. I said clearly up front I don’t own any of his or his competitors work. I should have been clearer as this pertains only to his case colored hardening. My experience with the restoration of firearms is extensive having had multiple English doubles restored in GB as well as by myself (in addition to stocking many barreled bolt action rifles with proper oil finishes and checkering). Discussions with the restoration agents in England and a lot of research led me to the conclusion that in their market as dictated by their preferences that redoing color case hardening is not frequently requested and leaving them in the gray preferable (thereby choosing to omit this service). That research led me to the multiple sources of color case hardening and cost thereof. Interestingly I had many telephone conversations with the late Jack Rowe on this and many other topics (initially prompted by the need for help on how to correct a mess I had made with trying to free hand flat tiop checkering on an Army Navy SLNE over a hundred years old). All of that said I have handled many firearms with color case hardening done by his shop as well as others and from the factory (at many gun shows to include multiple trips to the Southern Side by Side Classic which is one of the preeminent shows for high end doubles). Judging the quality of true color case hardening is quite subjective (notwithstanding the coverage or the lack of any induced structural changes. Some prefer muted colors others bright. I do love the work of Turnbull and his staff and have followed his career for years and I am sure I will own a firearm on which they have worked but will probably feel that doubt tempered guilt.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2018 at 06:28
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Originally posted by Bolthunter Bolthunter wrote:

Obviously I have touched on a nerve that is raw and exposed. Admittedly, “suppose” was a relatively poor choice of a word as it was meant to be contextually understood. You went on to explain this in great detail but with a back drop of resentment probably due to the money you have spent on his work thereby demonstrating a large degree of guilt tempered by doubt. I said clearly up front I don’t own any of his or his competitors work.


No sir, I believe your “poor choice of word(s)” were “multiple” and “surpass.” Those are definitive words with very specific meanings. You said “multiple manufacturers have surpassed Turnbull.” Your words, not mine. Neither “guilt” nor “doubt” nor “raw and exposed” nerves prompted my reply at all. To the contrary, I enthusiastically welcome the idea that there are now “multiple” shops who “surpass” Turnbull’s work. This revelation piqued my interest and I simply wanted to know who some of these shops are. Since there are “multiple” shops you know of firsthand, I was anxious to hear about just a couple of them off the top of your head and in what category of work they “surpass” Turnbull. I might’ve wanted to send some work their way, and thought you were gonna enlighten us. Since there are multiple shops that qualify, it would be easy to list just a couple. Please don’t keep this info to yourself; share with the group.

It goes without saying that in any category of work or product, “best” is very subjective. Nevertheless, I was curious how you reconcile the dichotomy of declaring definitively that “multiple manufacturers have surpassed Turnbull,” yet admitting you own no examples of either Turnbull’s work or that of his competitors. Had you cited examples of just a couple of the “multiple” shops you believe “surpass” Turnbull rooted in firsthand experience, you could have provided some valuable advice to everyone who reads this thread. It’s now apparent from your crawfishing that you’re just another of a longstanding tradition of “internet experts” who claim insight without any firsthand experience to reinforce it. If that weren’t the case, you would’ve spared us the tedious mincing of words and simply provided examples.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2018 at 08:25
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That nerve must have been more exposed and raw than expected. The strength and gall of your replies are obnoxious and meant purely to defend your position while at the same time belittling. The problems in forum speak arise less frequently as compared to when people communicate verbally as before any miscommunication can occur it is resolved or pinpointed. I do not claim to know eveything about everything (the quintessential kid that we all new when growing up) but based on a perusal of your past posts it appears you are. From firearms to optics, whisky, whiskey, cameras, lenses, automobiles, etc you pen yourself as an expert but wanting no one to question your expertise. You rarely ask a question that would expose your lack of knowledge which when taken as a whole befits you as an “internet expert” further demonstrated by your number of posts (that are probably equaled or surpassed by yourself on other more extensive sites (to not just include firearms, optics, etc). I simply started the post asking an honest question.
Best is subjective but there are so many others doing equal or if you ask them possibly better quality work and to defend this to such a point it’s sad an pathetic. You are without a doubt are are quite knowledgeable with a lot of experience. Sorry for the mincing of words.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2018 at 09:01
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 Okay, everyone take a breath.

Bolt, you keep mentioning the first-hand experience you have in evaluating work that is equal to or superior to Turnbull's work, can you name just 2 shops that do color case hardening of equal or better craftsmanship at equal or lower cost? 

I have no dog in this proverbial hunt; however, I did say I would own a color case hardened 1911 one day, and I have a frame that could use refinishing.  If there is an option better and cheaper than Turnbull, that would be useful information.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2018 at 09:15
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

 Okay, everyone take a breath.

Bolt, you keep mentioning the first-hand experience you have in evaluating work that is equal to or superior to Turnbull's work, can you name just 2 shops that do color case hardening of equal or better craftsmanship at equal or lower cost? 

I have no dog in this proverbial hunt; however, I did say I would own a color case hardened 1911 one day, and I have a frame that could use refinishing.  If there is an option better and cheaper than Turnbull, that would be useful information.


+1.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2018 at 09:42
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Originally posted by Bolthunter Bolthunter wrote:

And that is why multiple other manufacturers surpass Turnbull.

^^^This is what you said, friend. A verbatim quote.

This statement implies knowledge gleaned from experience. I simply asked who some of these "multiple manufacturers" are, prompting you to write Moby Dick-length tomes covering every nuance except the crux of the theme YOU yourself introduced with that statement.

When are you going to reveal who some of these manufacturers are? Absent that input, there is only one other conclusion we are forced to draw here, and it ain't good.

Originally posted by Bolthunter Bolthunter wrote:

I have had nothing done by Turnbull there are a lot of others offering the same service but at a much lower price. Admittedly I have never had anything done by his competitors.

^^^You also said this. How do you reconcile that contradiction?

Just like everyone else here, I have strong opinions about things and discuss items of mutual interest, which is the purpose of these internet forums. I am no expert on anything except my own preferences and have never claimed to be. If I ever discuss any product with any specificity, it is only because I own the very product being discussed. If I don't, I either qualify my statements as such or I don't discuss the item in question. I may not be "right," but most of the time it is universally understood that there is no "right" or "wrong," there is only opinion and preference. Regardless, any opinion I express about anything is borne out of firsthand experience with the thing being discussed, not from conjecture.

To rehash, you asked a question about a color cased 1911. Peddler chimed in with the Turnbull recommendation, which is reasonable given that color case hardening is what his shop is best known for. You then had a decidedly negative reaction to Peddler's suggestion and made the comments above. It is incumbent on the person who rejects another poster's suggestions to offer alternatives, especially when making statements that promises alternatives might be forthcoming, if for no other reason out of courtesy. Your statement above did, after all, suggest that you had knowledge of these alternatives. When asked to expound on your definitive statement, you immediately became defensive and combative. Is it any wonder you received the reaction you did? Your reaction and tortured skirting of simple questions pretty much invited and warranted the criticism you received. You asked for advice, then rejected the advice provided. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2018 at 10:09
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Wow. I clearly stated that I do not own but have handled many of his ahis competitiors. Also as I have stated but will not spell out the others that offer this service as they are readily accessible via the internet. I could do a search and place names in a post but this would be untruthful as over the years and many shows I have handled many restorations. It would be like me listing all of the factory guns I have handled but do not own. Herman Melville would more proud of your gargantuan posts as compared to mine. Please let it go.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2018 at 10:18
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So, in summary, there's definitely a multitude of shops offering better work than Turnbull, but it's unreasonable to drop just one single name from this multitude, so the reader will have to do an "internet search" to find them, relying solely on marketing claims and photos on the internet from which to base his conclusions.

Gotcha. Really insightful info there. Do you have a newsletter I can subscribe to?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2018 at 10:21
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Mike having handled many from multiple shops through the years makes recalling specific names difficult while being honest. One that I do recall as I had several conversations with after a trade show about doing work for me was a guy named Dan Prinz in Yanceville NC. His color case hardening was to my eye as good as any I have seen but with brighter as opppsed to muted colors which is a subjective issue. I would have to do a search but his prices were about 20% less than Turnbull with a similar turn around time. I ultimately chose not to use him or any other. My 9 and 11 yo kids have taken me out of the game for some time and have not done any restorations or even shooting in several years. I like verbal communication better. I am sorry for the banter.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2018 at 11:01
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Bolthunter, I am trying to give you a chance, but it isn't going well so far.

Your singular example - in a conversation about color case hardened 1911s - is a guy that doesn't do 1911 color case hardening?  He has no pictures of 1911s, he has no pricing for 1911s, and that is your example?  Comparing to a shop known the world over for their 1911 work.  In a conversation specifically about 1911s.

I can do a web search, I'm all good there; but you made blanket and definitive statements that now seem to be ill informed or poorly composed.  

I am genuinely looking for someone that does Turnbull-quality work for a better price, and you claimed to have that information - but have thus far withheld it.

I don't think the point needs to be continued, you've been asked a few times and offered nothing of consequence, I'll now seek answers elsewhere.

So...back to the topic at hand: I will own a color case hardened 1911.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2018 at 20:42
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OK reading and understanding of text is a requirement of basic education. Dan will color case harden anything you wish. Just because Turnbull shows no examples of let’s say a Holland and Holland Dominion grade does not mean he would not perform such services for this firearm. This is getting ridiculous. Again, I am sorry for the semantics and banter. I take full responsibility.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2018 at 21:04
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Consider Timberluxe, Wyoming Armory, Cheshire Gunroom, Jesse Smith and multiple others for restoration and case coloring. That being said I cannot begin to enumerate the number of custom guns and restorations that I have personally handled. If you are serious about restoration peruse any issue of the Double Gun and Single Shot Journal for those that offer professional restoration services. These can be found in the articles and list of advertisers. To rely completely on the well known reputation of Turnbull is well meaning but irresponsible as in any industry there is fierce competition.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/23/2018 at 13:59
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Because of this thread I have looked on the web at many examples. I would never have case coloring done to my remaining 1911. But, they sure make for a fine looking auto.
So, would case coloring hold up to holster wear?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/23/2018 at 14:45
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Its pretty and ugly all at the same time. 


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