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Weatherby Vanguard VGL Q&A

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flyspy1 View Drop Down
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    Posted: December/05/2007 at 18:46
Honored friends,
 
I'm about to trade my .357 Marlin carbine straight up for my little brother's .223 Weatherby Vanguard VGL.  I feel that I am getting the better end of the deal, mostly because my brother is an idiot (he could F up a two car funeral) and he feels that he's getting a great deal because he hasn't ever been able to get better than about a 5" group.  I haven't mentioned to him that it's because of the tasco he has on top of it, but caveat emptor.  Anyhow, I know this rifle  has been abused, and my question for you guys is:  should I just switch the optics out and take what I get or go ahead and rebarrel the thing and rebuild it from the ground up?  If i go the rebarrel route, I'm going to try a Super Sniper on it, if it's just optics I'm leaning toward trying a kahles or IOR so as to put Focus' Leupold Lynch Mob at bay.  Going to try to get all of this done between now and the 27th.  Thanks as always.
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RONK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RONK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 19:11
Well I would first  put a good scope on the Vanguard and put the Tasco on a different rifle of proven accuracy.  This will tell you where you need to concentrate your efforts, for starters...
 You'd be foolish to rebarrel a rifle that may shoot very well as is. No matter what, you are getting a great deal, though!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 19:14
Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

Well I would first  put a good scope on the Vanguard and put the Tasco on a different rifle of proven accuracy.  This will tell you where you need to concentrate your efforts, for starters...
 You'd be foolish to rebarrel a rifle that may shoot very well as is. No matter what, you are getting a great deal, though!
 
i agree with you ronk
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

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God Bless Chris Ledoux
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flyspy1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyspy1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 19:17

When I take that tasco off, it's getting a new barrel of its own too....Rubbermaid...  I've got a Conquest in my safe that I plan on putting on my 300 RUM, maybe I'll put that on the weatherby for 20 rounds just to see if, indeed, it was a scope problem.  If not, there's no telling what all might be wrong with it and I will be in for a long haul.  For all I know, my bro could've been using the thing as a demolition tool.  That's the scary part for me. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 20:26
maybe he's not so dumb afterall-- just kiddin, how does the bore look, run a swab with JB paste through it, I'll bet there is so much carbon build up that is most of the problem.
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flyspy1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyspy1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 20:34
I looked at it yesterday, and it was pretty neglected.  I doubt it's ever seen a cleaning patch.  Do you think that 10 years worth of non-cleaning will have corroded the steel?  (I'm thinking of the nitric by-products eating the steel or something)  To be sure, I don't know how much he has or hasn't shot it.  That's why I was looking at a rebarrel, but maybe this one in salvageable. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 20:36
im sure it doesnt help
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 20:44
the nitric stuff is actually ammonia that conplexs with the copper, to form the blue color, no I think the odds are with you, try the cleaning if the barrel looks good maybe a set back and a rechamber.
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flyspy1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyspy1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 20:47
Yep.  If you ever want to know what the inside of an anvil looks like, give to my brother and in two weeks' time, he'll have it torn up enough that you can see its innards.  I'll clean it and shoot it tomorrow and see what happens.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RONK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 21:15
Originally posted by flyspy1 flyspy1 wrote:

Yep.  If you ever want to know what the inside of an anvil looks like, give to my brother and in two weeks' time, he'll have it torn up enough that you can see its innards.  I'll clean it and shoot it tomorrow and see what happens.
 
  Now that's funny!  It reminds me of a guy who said of his brother-"you could lock him in a room with two bowling balls and within an hour he will have lost one and broken the other!"
 
 Seriously, I doubt that the bore is badly compromised by neglect alone, unless it is blooming with red or green rust. A good cleaning with J-B will work wonders.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyspy1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2007 at 21:11

quick update for those who care...  Turns out the free floating barrel was not so free floating.  So even though it got a good cleaning which it sorely deserved, and got a new Conquest on it, it still wasn't grouping.  So I did the dollar bill trick and lo and behold it was pinching at the very end of the stock.  Mk1 finger and 150 grit sandpaper and it's floated now.  I'm still researching, but does anyone know what the correct torque is for the action bolts?  Didn't think about it before I took it apart.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyspy1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2007 at 18:01
Holy crap guys.  The gun is keyholing @ 25 yds.  I had to take it to the 25yd range next to where I work for time factors, but, while it is grouping now, I've got perfect keyholes at 25 yds.  I am absolutely befuddled at this point.  I have a picture to show yall, but can't figure out how to upload it.  ( I tried to follow the instructions on the FAQ w/ no avail)  What would make it keyhole like that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyspy1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2007 at 18:06
http://www.opticstalk.com/uploads/6419/223keyhole1.JPG
Don't know if this link will work.


Edited by flyspy1 - December/07/2007 at 18:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2007 at 18:10
and you were worried about it not shooting, see what happens when you go to the used rack and spend a  little time with a gun and use some know how?? thats awesome you sound pumped!!
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Focus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2007 at 18:11
OK your pic link works, boy its keyholing all right. What ammo are you using? Its probably that conquest scope.....I told you to use a leupold. Just joking......... are they handloads? Surplus ammo? Give us some particulars.

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Edited by Focus - December/07/2007 at 18:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyspy1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2007 at 18:21
FGMM 69 gr.  I didn't have anything to build a load with anyhow, and since FGMM was the best stuff the range had, that's what I got.  Those rounds in the pic were the last 5 rounds of the box.  All of them were perfectly sideways like that.  I had my .308 with me so I fired a few just to make sure there wasn't some leprechaun wrinkling the paper or something.  They were perfect circles.  I am baffled.  You laughing at me already pyro? Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Focus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2007 at 18:22
*The bullet's base is cockeyed and gas escapes off one side before the
    other as it leaves the muzzle.

* Something really unbalanced the bullet as it was going down the bore.
    After exiting the muzzle, it tumbles.

* The bullet is spinning way too slow as it leaves the muzzle; it won't
    gyroscopically stablize. Or it's spinning too fast; its natural
    unbalance creates enough centrifugal force to cause it to tumble.

That means take a REAL good look at that crown. Use a magnifer and look at it all around the edge.

What twist is the barrel? What weight bullets are you shooting?

Handloads with a drastically wrong powder type or charge, not fully burning or igniting.

   Focus
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If Accurate rifles Are Interesting.....I've Got Some Savages That Are Getting Mighty Interesting......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2007 at 18:22
no laughs just happy it all worked out for you
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2007 at 18:23
wby vanguards are known to be good shooters , even the ones that arent submoa models have been know to shoot sub moa with factory ammo any way, and they really lay em in there if you hand load.
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Focus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2007 at 18:26
Take a cleaning rod with a tight fitting patch and mark it and then run in thru the bore counting how many times it turns will give you the twist. They could be too heavy if you have a slow twist more for 50-55grain bullets. We're not laughing at you......but with you

Focus
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Focus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2007 at 18:28
Quote just to make sure there wasn't some leprechaun wrinkling the paper or something.


OK now I'm starting to chuckle a little....He He Getting desperate are we?

   Focus
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If Accurate rifles Are Interesting.....I've Got Some Savages That Are Getting Mighty Interesting......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyspy1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2007 at 18:29
After I get back from the sim, I will take some pics of the crown.  It's worn, yes, but nothing too drastic methinks.  Maybe a lighter bullet?  That 69 is probably a little heavy.  I don't know what the twist is on the rifle, but it's totally factory from weatherby which is to say from Howa. (I understand they made the rifle for wby during that time).  That trade is looking like a bad idea...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2007 at 18:31
im sure its going to be a 1:12 twist course ive been wrong before
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Focus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2007 at 18:32
Naw its a good shooter just probably got a 1 in 12 twist. The bullets are probably too heavy....or maybe he used the barrel for a pry bar with an old screwdriver stuck down the bore for leverage. Sorry, having some fun with ya before you discover its really a good shooter. 1 in 12 usually won't stablize a 69 grain bullet, but it was fun watching ya melt down

Focus

Edited by Focus - December/07/2007 at 18:34
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If Accurate rifles Are Interesting.....I've Got Some Savages That Are Getting Mighty Interesting......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2007 at 18:37
yeah for that duty your looking at something more like a 1:9 or a 1:10
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"
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