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Vortex Razor - excessive chromatic aberration?

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nodule View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nodule Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Vortex Razor - excessive chromatic aberration?
    Posted: May/30/2010 at 17:29
I have read several reviews stating that the Vortex Razor is extremely overrated for its price
and the bino has significant chromatic aberration.

Yet so many folks on this forum really seem to love them. Has anyone here detected excessive CA with this bino?

As I am researching mid/high end 10 x 42 models, the Razor is on my short list to demo
and im wondering if it worth it to check out?

Im looking at......  Vortez Razor 10 x 42
                             Pentax DCF SP 10 x 43
                             Leupold Golden Ring 10 x42?


I would appreciate any thoughts!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NDhunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2010 at 19:15
I do not have any experience with the Vortex, but have not heard about reviews as you
have suggested.  Your post seems to condemn them for CA, but where is your proof?
What reviews are you referring to?
 
They seem to be well rated in the mid level optic area.  As a new poster, you need to be careful when you start posting negative, on any optic, your first sentence seems a bit bold!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bitterroot Bulls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2010 at 21:34
Nodule,

I have looked through several Razors (10X42, 8X42, 10X50) and find them to be excellent optical performers. 

One characteristic of all three models was the noticeable LACK of chromatic aberration.

Another value 10X42 with exceptional CA control is the Zen Ray ZEN ED.

BTW, I don't find your first sentence too bold, you only reference the opinions of others that you have read.  If you are looking for good optics advice, you are in the right place.  The gurus on Optics Talk have saved me plenty of wasted time and money.

Good luck on your search for a good 10X42!

FWIW, I will soon be ordering a Razor HD spotting scope (from SWFA), and may well look into a matching set of bins before this hunting season.  Vortex is a great company that makes a great product.

Bucky
-Matt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nodule Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/31/2010 at 08:17
NDHunter,

My first sentence seems "cold". You're kidding, right??  I am posting comments about
binoculars!!
The website where you can find this review is allbinos.com. If you really feel my comment
was "cold", just read this gentlemen's review.

All the best....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JGRaider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/31/2010 at 08:42
Originally posted by NDhunter NDhunter wrote:

I do not have any experience with the Vortex, but have not heard about reviews as you
have suggested.  Your post seems to condemn them for CA, but where is your proof?
What reviews are you referring to?
 
They seem to be well rated in the mid level optic area.  As a new poster, you need to be careful when you start posting negative, on any optic, your first sentence seems a bit bold!



As a veteran poster ND, you need to be careful and not post  things like "alpha glass has a better warranty than anybody else" BS as you've done before, which is a blatant lie.  This man is posting what he heard/read and was wanting clarification, that's all.   You may want to think of that before you start throwing stones.


NDHunter said "You are right here.  There is a reason the top end optics do cost more, they have better glass and warranty.  You do find the boosters here for some of the others.  But it really does come down to what you what you want to spend and your satisfaction."


Edited by JGRaider - May/31/2010 at 08:49
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/31/2010 at 09:52
Easy, gents!  No need for drama.  JGRaider, why are you unnecessarily dragging past disagreements into this thread and condemning alleged comments that were never made in this discussion?  Are you actually arguing with someone over statements you anticipate he might say?  If you have a disagreement with another member, please confine it to the actual discussion where it occurred so it doesn't muddy up this one.  Also, don't you think inferring someone is telling lies goes beyond merely "throwing stones" and into the "throwing boulders" category?

Nodule, you state you read "several reviews" yet later say you read a "review" at allbinos.com.  Have you read other reviews with the same comments?  Overwhelmingly, the reviews I've read had the opposite comments about the Razor and CA.  I own a Razor 8X42, and I've found CA to be almost nonexistent.  Its lack of CA is one of its best qualities.  In fact, my particular sample actually has less noticeable CA than other binoculars I tested at twice the price.  Based on other Razors I've seen, I can only conclude the reviewer either has much more sensitive eyes than I do or he got a bad sample.  However, he does rate the binocular high overall, and I see nowhere that he said he thought they were "overrated."  I think that added description is what ND objected to.  It is worth noting that apparently he only reviewed the 10X42 version of the Razor. 

I read several of the allbinos.com reviews, including the Razor 10X42 review, and I find a few things noteworthy.  First of all, the information is dated, because several binoculars were reviewed that are no longer manufactured.  Apparently they only reviewed 10X42 and 8X56 binoculars (with a couple other random configs added in), which I find very odd, since 8X42 is one of the most popular configs, certainly more popular than 8X56.  The information on the Razor is dated, as it no longer has silver coated prisms, but instead now has dielectric prism coatings.  The reviewer gave a higher CA correction score to the Kahles 10X42 than it did to the Razor.  I happen to own the Kahles 10X42 as well, and I can tell you without a doubt it has very prominent yellow and purplish CA, much more pronounced than the Razor... in my samples.  Finally, the reviews themselves are very lacking in information.  I find it curious that they apparently didn't evaluate resolution and contrast -- two of the most important optical qualities in a binocular. 

As far as reviews in general are concerned, there is enough subjectivity and unit to unit variation involved that you will never find unanimous agreement on any optic.  However, if you read enough reviews and talk to enough users, you will generally get a good idea of how a particular optic stacks up. 

The Razor is very good, and is a worthy representative sample of the "upper mid" level binoculars, which includes some good company.  I feel pretty certain if you did buy one you'd be very happy with it.  If you weren't, I also feel certain that if you bought them from our host (SWFA), they would exchange them for another binocular to make you happy with your purchase.

Edited by RifleDude - May/31/2010 at 10:01
Ted


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nodule Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/31/2010 at 09:58
RifleDude,
I understand and thanks for the clarification. I was just seeking other folk's opinions, thats
all, the Razors are still on my list to test. Also, there was another negative review on the
Razors but Icant remember what site that was on. I will search for it again.
And I really dont think there is no need to get defensive on this subject, Im mean after all,
we are ONLY talking about binoculars, NOT our children!
Thanks

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3_tens Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/31/2010 at 15:26
Sad part is I treat my 4X42 Vortex Razors better than I would my children. They treat me better than my children treat me too. The Razors have never let me down.
Folks ain't got a sense of humor no more. They don't laugh they just get sore.

Need to follow the rules. Just hard to determine which set of rules to follow
Now the rules have changed again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JGRaider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/31/2010 at 15:51
Rifle, ND doesn't need to criticize anyone when he does in fact lie from time to time. I posted where he last did it.  You can be politically correct if you want to, but when someone misrepresents the facts I call it a lie.  I didn't think what I said to ND had anything to do with you, with all due respect.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/31/2010 at 16:21
Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

Rifle, ND doesn't need to criticize anyone when he does in fact lie from time to time. I posted where he last did it.  You can be politically correct if you want to, but when someone misrepresents the facts I call it a lie.  I didn't think what I said to ND had anything to do with you, with all due respect.   


Raider, I thought your comments were unprovoked and un-called for, and I'm a moderator on this forum, so it did in fact have everything to do with me.  It's not a matter of being "politically correct," it's a matter of being civil and on topic, as well as adhering to the standards we have here and are expected to abide by.  I don't see anywhere in this thread where facts were misrepresented.  The quote you posted seemed to be ND speaking in general, not about any specific brands.  Additionally that quote is partially a matter of opinion, so I don't see how you could call that a "lie."  If one person holds an opinion and another disagrees with that opinion, it doesn't mean either is lying, just that they disagree.  There's nothing wrong with disagreement, but calling into question another member's character has no place here, and you are out of line, sir. 

Consider this a warning.

See forum rule #2.


Edited by RifleDude - May/31/2010 at 16:40
Ted


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nodule Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/31/2010 at 16:38
Thanks...
I will be ordering 3 binoculars to test out and I will be keeping just one.

They will be Vortez Razor 10 x 42, Leupold Golden Ring 10 x 42 and the Pentax
DCF SP 10 x 43.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/31/2010 at 16:42
Be sure and post your thoughts on each binocular when you finish your comparison and decide which one you prefer, nodule.
Ted


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nodule Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/31/2010 at 16:48
I certainly will, RifleDude. Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JGRaider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/01/2010 at 08:45
I guess I thought service issues were subjective and therefore subject to opinion, whereas what the actual warranty is is very much black and white and not subject to opinion.  Sorry, I guess I was wrong.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/01/2010 at 09:48
I skipped over everything posted to answer the original poster.

I have a Razor spotter and 6x32 binos, both are superb.  Spotter has no CA, nor do the binos (though 6X with CA would be especially terrible.)

If you don't like them, Vortex seems very. very customer focused.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nodule Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/01/2010 at 09:54
Thanks......
I will be ordering the razor 10 x 42, along with 2 others, to test and compare.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/01/2010 at 10:03
My friend bought a pair of the 8x42 Razors based on the opinions here. I have used them next to my 7x42 Zeiss and think that the Razor is a fine glass for the money.
I noticed no CA either. The adjustable eye cups are easy to use for us folks that wear glasses, too.
 
Doug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nodule Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/01/2010 at 10:11
Thanks....sound like the razors may work for me.

I will be comparing the Razor to the Pentax DCF SP and the Leupold Golden Ring 10 x 42.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/01/2010 at 11:08
Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

I guess I thought service issues were subjective and therefore subject to opinion, whereas what the actual warranty is is very much black and white and not subject to opinion.  Sorry, I guess I was wrong.  
 
The point is, your comments, specifically in implying another member is a liar, are not appropriate here or pertinent to this thread.  Secondly, the quote you copied was a generality and does not specify any particular brand, so it might be applicable in most cases even if not in some specific comparison.  Regardless, calling someone a liar, especially unprovoked, isn't appropriate anywhere on OT, and is a violation of the rules you agreed to when you registered your account.  There will be no further discussion of this matter, so don't bother replying.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/01/2010 at 14:20
I couple of comments:
-I have looked at a number of Vortex binoculars and posted reviews on several of them.  My results were different from the review you have seen.  That having been said, I never reviewed a 10x42.
-CA has generally been well controlled in the Razor binos, so that is an odd remark.  However, there are always sample-to-sample variations.
-New dielectric prism coating DO make a difference

Here are the links to some of my reviews in Vortex binos:

ILya


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonoMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/01/2010 at 15:44
I didn't notice any CA in the two pairs I've tried (both inside and outside). That was before the new dielectric coatings too. They are very crisp, clear bins and of high quality. Sure, I'd consider the Zen ED2s and since I've not been in the market for a while, am not sure how close Vortex comes in price now (whether they were forced to lower it or not).
Reaction time is a factor...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nodule Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/01/2010 at 15:49
Koskin,
Very nice review and great pictures also.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lucytuma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/02/2010 at 09:04
Nodule, I believe you'll find one of the three to your liking. All three are very comparable and it very well might come down to which one just feels right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Klamath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/02/2010 at 20:17
Well, since this thing nosedived into the dumpster, I have avoided any response.  However I decided to add some perspective.
 
First, realize right out front that any binocular you can buy will have some flaws.  I don't care who made it or how much it cost you, it will have some flaws.  I don't think that has any great significance as an observation, but so many people drive themselves nuts looking for flaws that they succeed in finding them, and pretty much doom themselves to being pretty well dissatisfied with any optic.
 
Now you entered the discussion with a reasonably broad blanket statement about excessive chromatic aberration and its presence in the Vortex Razor.  I wonder why you chose that particular flaw to center on.  Do you know what chromatic aberration is, how it manifests itself, and how to find and analyze it?  Chromatic aberration is something that is highly variable.  It drives some people over-the-edge-nuts, and some people barely notice it.  Where you are on the scale, I don't know, but I strongly advise you to not bust an all out effort to find the blasted phenomena in the first place.  Now, there is nothing wrong with being concerned about chromatic aberration or in not knowing how to identify it.  Rest assured, I am not being critical of you.  Keep in mind Ted asking you to post some thoughts and comparisons about your choices.  That's going to take asking some questions on your part, and being reasonable, through and comprehensive in your evaluation.
 
I have some glass time with everything on your list.  There are a couple of other fairly obvious choices, but I will stay with the list you gave.  That is largely because there are three pretty decent binoculars there and quite frankly, if one of the three does not work, then there is likely something wrong with your eyes, and you might need an eye doctor Big Smile.
 
However, since in all likelyhood your eyes are just fine one of the three should work.  Frankly, I place them in the following order, best to worst:
 
Leupold Gold Ring
Vortex Razor
 
and a couple of notches below I place the Pentax SP.
 
The Leupold and Razor will likely come down to as simple decision on how each one best fits you.  Both are good binoculars and will give you lots of good service.  Either will show you anything that any reasonable binocular will show you.  Whichever one you choose, just buy it and use it for what you like about it.  Most flaws will probably not jump out and poke you in the eye.  However, it can never be predicted how any set of eyes will react to any particular binocular.


Edited by Klamath - June/02/2010 at 20:18
Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nodule Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/02/2010 at 20:49
Klamath,

Thanks for your thoughtful, intelligent response. Your analysis is the type of responses
I like to get!

My first choice actually is the Nikon Premier LXL 10 x 42, but I really am resisting buying
a binocular over $750.00. To me the Nikon would be pretty darn close to the perfect
binocular, at least for me!

I have a rather narrow PD of 57.5mm, so that was taken into consideration. Both the
Leupold and Vortez have a stated minimum PD of 56mm, which should work fine, while
the Pentax is stated at 58mm minimum.

We will see.............

Thanks
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